the whole Christian/Baptism debate that's been going on

[festuco]

No: HPFGUIDX 153830

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "festuco" <vuurdame at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Marion Ros" <mros@> wrote:
> >
> 
Marion
> > The term 'godfather' or 'godmother' is not exclusive to christian
> faith or church. Remember the 'fairy godmother' from fairy tales? Do
> you really think fairy godmothers were present in a *church* in the
> presence of a *priest*? Do you remember the uproar the Harry Potter
> books caused amongst (American) Christians? They wanted to burn the
> books because they were supposed to be satanic. Why? Because it
> "taught children how to become *witches*" and doesn't the bible say
> something about 'thou shalt not suffer a witch to live'? 
> 
Gerry
> Hm, fanatical fundamentalist Christians you mean. Normal Christians
> lik JKR and most Christian people buy the books, read the books, are
> fanatical fans, or don't like children's books and don't get what the
> fuss is about. 
> 
> 
Marion
> > Muggles hunted down witches because the bible and the priests told
> them to. The Church sent the Inquisition and the Christian State sent
> its Witchfinders Generals. The Wizarding World separated itself from
> the Muggle World because of this.
> > And you think, Leslie, that Wizards would give their children a
> *Christian* baptism? So they could be indoctrinated by the priests and
> their books? The books that told them (the baptised wizard children)
> that they were intrisically *evil* and must be *burned*? Or *drowned*?
> 
Gerry
> Yes, actually. Because they themselves knew they were not evil and had
> nothing to do with the devil. I fully assume they interpreted that
> passage as meaning evil wizard/witch and did not worry too much about
> it. I think the whole 'take the bible literally' idea was abandoned
> much earlier among the WW than in the rest of the Christian world. 
> > 
> 
Marion
> > And wasn't one of the reasons that Wizards were supposedly satanic
> because they did not worship Jehovah or Christ? (one of the quirks of
> monotheism: "if you're not with us, your against us. Either you're a
> cardcarrying Christian, or you're one of Satan's own Satanic herd!
> Burn! Burn!!!")
> > 
> 
Gerry
> I'm sorry, but that is a circular argument. In those days Britain was
> a Christian country. The magical community knew they worshipped Christ
> and had nothing to do with the devil. So why would they abandon their
> faith? They recognized that it had nothing to do with devil worship
> but with fear of power I assume. 
> 
Marion
> > A problem I could see arising in this: the Muggleborns. They might
> well be baptised and raised as a Christian. Very probably in fact.
> Which might explain *some* of the aversion the 'purebloods' might have
> against Muggleborns. 'Polluting' their culture with their weird
> religion which says that if you're a witch you should die or at least
> *repent* and *feel guilty*...
> 
Gerry
> I don't know how it sounds in Enblish, but there is this famous Jezuit
> remark which translated as "give them to us before they are seven and
> we have them for the rest of their lives." Muggleborns - who by the
> way don't get snatched, but are invited - would indeed have been a
> great security risk for the WW if they would have had to abandon their
> faith and start worshipping some weird pagan and therefor devilish
> gods, or whatever you imagine the religon of the WW is like. There is
> loads of literature about people denouncing others because they cannot
> cope with being like that themselves, for example repressed
> homosexuality and gay bashing. Especially when religion is concerned
> this would have been a disaster waiting to happen, time and time again. 
> > 
Marion
> > But luckily, Muggleborns get snatched from their motherculture from
> age eleven and thoroughly immersed in Wizard Culture. After
> graduating, they will continue to live in the Wizarding World and very
> rarely make excursions to the Muggle world with its churches and
> priests. If they ever were thoroughly indoctrinated by religion, a few
> years of spells, potions, ghosts and Quidditch would cure them of
> that. And if not, there is always Oblivation...
> > 
Gerry
> What a scary world you are making. Please start supporting this by
> canon instead of giving your own doomsday vision. 
> 
> Gerry
>