Choice and Essentialism (was:Re: Understanding Snape)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 153922

> >>Betsy Hp: 
> > Here's the text under discussion:
> > "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more 
> > than our abilities." [SS paperback p.333]
> > I don't think Dumbledore was trying to say that people are who 
> > they are, and we can merely discover their true character by    
> > looking at their choices. 

> >>Alla:
> > I think that is exactly what he says here. I mean, why would not 
> > he say then - our choices MAKE us who we are.

> >>a_svirn:
> Because he thought that our choices are more important than our 
> characters. Example: James might have been a bully, but he chose   
> the Light side – that makes him a good guy. Marietta Edgecombe is 
> a "wonderful person" according to Cho, yet she made a "a mistake" 
> as Cho termed it. That makes her a sneak.

Betsy Hp:
Exactly.  While the choices a character makes puts them on a certain 
path, those choices don't *make* the character who they are.  They 
are who they are.  As Dumbledore says, don't look at abilities, look 
at how those abilities are *used*.

James had a lot of charm, leadership skills, magical skills and 
creativity.  For a while he *chose* to use those skills to torment 
people he didn't like.  But at some point he came to a cross-roads 
and chose to go in a different direction.  His abilities remained, 
but he chose to use those abilities in a different way.  

> >>Alla:
> I see it as that the essence of your personality will direct your
> choices if that makes sense at all.
> <snip>
> I mean, it is nature v nurture never ending debate, and of course 
> I think that the fact that he did not grow up normally, hopefully 
> played the part, but don't you think that it can be argued just as 
> easily that Gaunts "bad genes" played the most important part in   
> Tom's personality development?

Betsy Hp:
Ah, but I think that's what Dumbledore is fighting against.  This 
idea that you are your blood.  Harry is good a Quidditch, possibly 
helped by his father's good genes.  But how he chooses to *play* is 
totally Harry.  At one point he played the game with a wand, and he 
could have thrown a Confundus, but he chose not to.

Hermione is very into order.  That's her personality and it's part 
of the reason she's very big on rules.  But she chose to break the 
rules and lie about the troll incident in PS/SS and that's how she 
became friends with Harry and Ron.

> >>Alla:
> Of course choice is important, it is just I think that in         
> Potterverse it is an opportunity for character to show who they   
> are, not exactly decide who they are.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
This is what I totally disagree with.  Because if this were so, why 
bother?  Why the long discussion between Harry and Hermione and 
Neville and the Sorting Hat?  If you are who you are and that never 
changes there wouldn't be any discussion at all.

In the end there wouldn't be any choice, because any suggestion of 
choice would be false.  Which would take away responsibility.  Peter 
didn't choose to betray his friends.  That's just his personality 
coming out.  And his friends were to blame for not realizing his 
weakness.

> >>Alla:
> Besides Tom Riddle, we have Duddley Dursley whom JKR seems to be
> hinting at having a bad personality at what, year and a half? What
> choices did he miss making?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Dudley is an interesting character, I think, because his parents do 
the best they can to shelter him from having to make choices.  But 
when he goes away to school that shelter is broken.  Personally I 
think his decision to take up boxing was a positive choice on his 
part.  It showed him stepping out of his parent's very, very padded 
little box of safety and doing something difficult that required 
discipline.

Of course, Dudley continues his rebellion against his parents by 
becoming the sort of street punk they accuse Harry of being.  Which 
is less positive.  But again, it's a choice Dudley makes.  It shows 
us something about Dudley, but it was *Dudley's* choice.

> >>Alla:
> Are you sure though that Dumbledore's primary concern is to give
> characters free choices or is his mainly concern is to try to     
> change of who they are, sort of, their beliefs, etc?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
While I'm shaky on Dumbledore's character at the moment, there are 
too many times that JKR specifically has him give a person the space 
to make a choice for me to question whether or not the freedom of 
choice is important to him.

That's the entire story line of Draco in HBP.  Dumbledore does 
everything he can to give Draco room to make a choice.  While at the 
same time Voldemort does everything he can to try and trap Draco 
into a situation where he has no choice.

After the choice is made, the path isn't necessarily easy, and 
Dumbledore may do nothing (or possibly cannot do anything) to 
alleviate the difficulties.  But Sirius *chose* to come back to 
England and volunteer his family's home for the Order.  Actually, I 
believe all of the Order members have chosen to serve the Order.  No 
Imperius going on there. <g>

Betsy Hp