Choice and Essentialism (was:Re: Understanding Snape)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 153924

>> > >>Alla:
> > I see it as that the essence of your personality will direct your
> > choices if that makes sense at all.
> > <snip>
> > I mean, it is nature v nurture never ending debate, and of 
course 
> > I think that the fact that he did not grow up normally, 
hopefully 
> > played the part, but don't you think that it can be argued just 
as 
> > easily that Gaunts "bad genes" played the most important part 
in   
> > Tom's personality development?
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Ah, but I think that's what Dumbledore is fighting against.  This 
> idea that you are your blood.  Harry is good a Quidditch, possibly 
> helped by his father's good genes.  But how he chooses to *play* 
is 
> totally Harry.  At one point he played the game with a wand, and 
he 
> could have thrown a Confundus, but he chose not to.
> 
> Hermione is very into order.  That's her personality and it's part 
> of the reason she's very big on rules.  But she chose to break the 
> rules and lie about the troll incident in PS/SS and that's how she 
> became friends with Harry and Ron.

Alla:

Um, forgive me for babbling again, because strictly philosophical 
debates are not my strong forte. So, I may do some back tracking, 
reformulate, etc. 
Let me just say again, I do not deny the existance of choice. The 
question for me is how much  their choices are guided by what they 
are.

You brought Hermione in. Yes, she is into Order, very much. BUT is 
that the primary characteristic of her personality or is  it a big 
one but not the most important one?

THAT's what I am trying to say. Hermione liking the rules is just 
the part of Hermione, but when you think of Hermione as courageous, 
loyal friend, someone who as we learn later on has a very similar 
values to Ron and Harry in the good vs evil fight, was that choice 
of hers so AGAINST her personality or was that her TRUE personality 
coming through?

I am not sure myself about blood as showing of existentialism in the 
books. What I am saying is that who the characters are plays the 
huge role. I am not quite sure that who they are equals their blood, 
so probably genes was the wrong example, although on the other hand 
Gaunts behaviour, ugliness ( abuse, etc) is coming from somewhere. 
Not sure. Have to think on it.


 
> > >>Alla:
> > Of course choice is important, it is just I think that 
in         
> > Potterverse it is an opportunity for character to show who 
they   
> > are, not exactly decide who they are.
> > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> This is what I totally disagree with.  Because if this were so, 
why 
> bother?  Why the long discussion between Harry and Hermione and 
> Neville and the Sorting Hat?  If you are who you are and that 
never 
> changes there wouldn't be any discussion at all.

Alla:

But  how do you know that discussion between kids and Sorting Hat 
was kids making a choice? Could it be that again their true 
personality shined through? As we know Sorting Hat never offered to 
put Harry in Slytherin, Harry showed that he did not want to be 
there, BECAUSE of who he is?

Although, since I find the Houses division to be very superficial, 
maybe those are not the best examples either.



 
> > >>Alla:
> > Besides Tom Riddle, we have Duddley Dursley whom JKR seems to be
> > hinting at having a bad personality at what, year and a half? 
What
> > choices did he miss making?
> > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Dudley is an interesting character, I think, because his parents 
do 
> the best they can to shelter him from having to make choices.  But 
> when he goes away to school that shelter is broken.  Personally I 
> think his decision to take up boxing was a positive choice on his 
> part.  It showed him stepping out of his parent's very, very 
padded 
> little box of safety and doing something difficult that required 
> discipline.
> 
> Of course, Dudley continues his rebellion against his parents by 
> becoming the sort of street punk they accuse Harry of being.  
Which 
> is less positive.  But again, it's a choice Dudley makes.  It 
shows 
> us something about Dudley, but it was *Dudley's* choice.


Alla:

But again I am not saying that Dudley never makes any choices. What 
I am saying that at the very young age we see the possibility that 
Dudley is going to be not a good person and indeed he is NOT a good 
person, IMO.
He has a large part of himself of who he is, that is all. It does 
not prevent him from making choices?

Again, sorry for awkwardness of this post. :)

Alla