James' essence/some Sirius and his family WAS: Re: Choice and Essentialism

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 153965

> Magpie:
> Personally, I see no reason for Sirius or Remus (can't remember 
which one 
> said it) to be lying and he doesn't sound like he is.  I put it on 
the same 
> level as Sirius reporting that Snape went around with "a gang of 
Slytherins 
> who all became Death Eaters."  Despite the fact that Snape happens 
to be 
> alone in the Pensieve scene, I still don't think Sirius is lying--
why would 
> he, after all? And what would be the point of that kind of false 
> information?  Sirius not liking Snape doesn't mean his information 
is always 
> wrong.

Alla:

Correct, I agree with this completely, but moreover I would say that 
there is too little information given to us as it is about Snape v 
Marauders and unless one thinks that the purpose is to swip  the rug 
from under us again in book 7, the literary purpose of Sirius lying, 
well, I just don't see any.


Magpie: 
> So it's more like I'd consider Remus or Sirius as having limited 
> understanding of Snape himself, and if asked I doubt they 
themselves would 
> consider the hating the Dark Arts comment a detailed 
representation of what 
> was going on with James and Snape.  I don't think it's a lie, but 
it's 
> intentionally simplified. They're trying to calm Harry down any 
way they can 
> and they don't want to go into the whole story of five years of 
animosity.

Alla:

Oversimplified for Harry? Quite possibly BUT I would not be 
surprised if Dark Arts was indeed at least ONE of the reasons of 
their animosity just as is. Am I making sense? JKR still withholds 
information , that is undisputable to me, otherwise again, why 
promise more about Prank in the last book, where she really really 
has a  lot of things to cover without touching Prank at all.

But she ( and in this situation by Remus and Sirius) may withhold 
another reason for animosity totally unrelated to Dark Arts OR she 
may just withold specific acts which were at the heart of their 
animosity but still related to Dark Arts. IMO anyways.


Magpie:
> So yeah, I agree with just how you see it.  But also Carol, 
because I think 
> her point is just not to think we know about what made James tick 
from the 
> limited information we have.

Alla:
Heee, I am not sure how you can agree with both Carol and myself 
since I don't quite agree with Carol. If her point is simply that we 
don't know what made James tick, Okay, I will buy that we don't know 
everything that made James tick, but partial reason is given and I 
see no reason to doubt it, honestly.

Magpie:
<SNIP>
  The key, 
> though, is that JKR isn't cheating by having characters lie, just 
as I don't 
> think Sirius or Remus was lying about James' hating the Dark Arts.

Alla:

Me too.


Magpie: 
> I should say that I think there are places where Sirius is closer 
to lying 
> because of his bias.  I took everything he said about his family 
with a big 
> grain of salt.  Again, not that I thought he was lying--his 
mother, at 
> least, seemed to live down to everything he said about her.  But 
the way he 
> so quickly had a bad take on every person he was related to made 
me think 
> there was more to their stories.  And of course I think that was 
leading up 
> to Regulus.

Alla:

Sure, as I said when Sirius talks about Snape, I am hunting for the 
truth underneath biase and prejudice ( still think it is there, but 
just have to dig for it), BUT not quite sure what you mean about his 
family.

Sirius clearly has very unhappy memories about his family and as you 
said it yourself his mother portrait seemes to live to everybody he 
described.

Weren't they not pureblood fanatics? 

As to Regulus, where did Sirius lie? I mean, he told us uncomplete 
information, as much as he knew, IMO. But I don't see lying here 
either.
And personally I think Sirius loved Regulus and regretted his death, 
despite being a bit jealous of his parents affection of him, because 
when I read Sirius calling Regulus a fool, I see bitter regret of 
what his brother did to his life, maybe I am reading something that 
is not there, I don't know.

What am I trying to say? Sirius testimony about his family is sure 
colored by his bad feelings, but I am not sure he is lying even here.

I have a lot of doubt imagining Mrs. Black being kind person for 
example when she was alive.

JMO,

Alla

I already adore Regulus story, I so want him to be alive. :)