[HPforGrownups] James' essence/some Sirius and his family WAS: Re: Choice and Essentialism

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 153976

> Alla:
> But she ( and in this situation by Remus and Sirius) may withhold
> another reason for animosity totally unrelated to Dark Arts OR she
> may just withold specific acts which were at the heart of their
> animosity but still related to Dark Arts. IMO anyways.
> Heee, I am not sure how you can agree with both Carol and myself
> since I don't quite agree with Carol. If her point is simply that we
> don't know what made James tick, Okay, I will buy that we don't know
> everything that made James tick, but partial reason is given and I
> see no reason to doubt it, honestly.

Magpie:
I do think it's part of the reason, definitely.  The way I think of it is 
like...it's hard to explain.  It's like more than one thing can be 
completely true at once.  Like Snape tells Harry he hated his father, that 
James "strutted" around.  Harry denies this.  But when he sees James he 
thinks he pretty much struts too.  So Snape was telling the truth--but 
that's not the whole story.  Sirius and Remus' view is also true, including 
that James hated the Dark Arts.  We're getting pieces of the relationship 
that is all true.

> Alla:
>
> Sure, as I said when Sirius talks about Snape, I am hunting for the
> truth underneath biase and prejudice ( still think it is there, but
> just have to dig for it), BUT not quite sure what you mean about his
> family.
>
> Sirius clearly has very unhappy memories about his family and as you
> said it yourself his mother portrait seemes to live to everybody he
> described.
>
> Weren't they not pureblood fanatics?
>
> As to Regulus, where did Sirius lie? I mean, he told us uncomplete
> information, as much as he knew, IMO. But I don't see lying here
> either.
> And personally I think Sirius loved Regulus and regretted his death,
> despite being a bit jealous of his parents affection of him, because
> when I read Sirius calling Regulus a fool, I see bitter regret of
> what his brother did to his life, maybe I am reading something that
> is not there, I don't know.

Magpie:
That's what I saw too--but that's what I mean.  Sirius goes through years of 
his family's history and has something dismissive to say about all of them. 
He made me think of just a teenager determined to say everything was crap. 
Like when they find the Order of Merlin and Sirius just says this means that 
the person must have bought his way into getting it, or when he said Phineas 
was the most hated headmaster.  I thought Sirius was so biased I wouldn't 
take his explanation of his family members--the ones that he didn't know. 
Sirius' view is that there's nothing of value in anyone in his family for 
generations, and I just don't think that's true.  It's not exactly lying 
since I'm sure Sirius believes it, but I do think it's probably a skewed 
impression.

It's like with Regulus--he's not lying at all, but telling the truth as he 
thinks it is.  But Sirius isn't in a position of that kind of authority 
about Regulus.  He *thinks* he is in this case, but he isn't.  So when I 
said he's getting closer to lying I didn't mean that Sirius himself was 
consciously lying but that the information we're getting is closer to being 
actually wrong. Regulus wasn't just a fool.  As opposed to his views on 
Snape and the Marauders which so far are more accurate: James did hate the 
Dark Arts.  Sirius is giving information on both James and Regulus, but he 
knows James better so his information's more accurate.

-m