Harry's arrogance /Evil Snape

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 154281

> >Alla:
> 
> >He honors the wishes of his dead mentor, which was  just now 
> >viciously murdered ( that is not a fact of course, only my  
opinion, 
> >but that is how I see it till JKR calls it otherwise  :))
> >Where is the arrogance here? <snip> 
> >BUT now Harry  listens to Dumbledore wishes and does NOT tell 
anybody 
> >but Ron and  Hermione about Prophecy and he is arrogant again?
> 
> Nikkalmati:
> Yes, because again he is making his own decision without 
consulting anyone  
> else.  Arguably, the situation has changed, since he last spoke 
with  DD!

Alla:

How did situation change? Besides the fact that DD is dead of 
course. Dumbledore did NOT tell him - you can tell anybody else IF I 
am dead, right?

So, Harry honours Dumbledore wishes to the letter. I still do not 
understdand how is it arrogance?

Harry emphasises it by saying that "he is DD man", I believe that 
him not telling anybody else will turn out to be a blessing, not a 
curse, but have not figured out yet how.

There is another interesting thing in Harry not telling Scrimgeore 
anything. It is IMO shows that Harry will not work willingly with 
the person with whom he has many ethical disagreements even if they 
are on the same side. Hmmm. Yes, I think it would be a blessing :)


> I would also cite another instance of so-called" arrogance" from 
HBP.   It 
> was foolish for Harry to rush out of the castle after Draco and 
Snape  followed 
> by three DEs.  What was he thinking?  Did he believe he could  
fight them all? 
> Apparently, he did.  I would call that arrogant.

Alla:

I would call that desire to bring the murderer to justice.

Was it foolish? Sure, it was, but arrogant?

I think that I am not really fit to chase the killer, if G-d forbid, 
I would ever witness a murder, but I am not sure if I would be able 
to remember it if somebody would (G-d forbid) murder my loved one in 
front of me.

I think that my primary thought would be to GET this person, NOW. My 
state of mind ( I think, I cannot say for sure of course, because I 
hope never ever to find myself in RL in such a horrible situation 
Harry did) would not be the one to calculate whether I should chase 
after the killer or not.

I mean, I HOPE that my first move would be to call the police ASAP, 
BUT I am twice as old as Harry is and am a lawyer, and I am still 
having  doubts that I would not be consumed by the desire to get the 
person who just killed my loved one.

So, to answer your question, I think Harry did NOT think much, but 
can I blame him for that? Not at all. IMO of course.

> > Alla, who agrees on that part, unfortunately, but who thinks of 
very 
> > different Snape redemption - as in him deeply 
regretting "killing 
> > Dumbledore" and trying to make Harry see it - that he, Snape 
regrets 
> > what he did.
> >
> 
> Pippin:
> If Snape is DDM, he is not the traitor, in which case all that 
stuff about
> Dumbledore's weakness of seeing only good in people is simply
> irrelevant -- and since Rowling has told us it isn't, the traitor 
must
> be someone else.

Alla:

Erm... Yes, IF he is DD!M he is not the traitor, but I thought it 
was clear enough from my many posts on the subject if not from this 
one that I don't believe that he IS the DD!M :)

Then that stuff about Dumbledore weakness of seeing the good in 
people being his  weakness is very very relevant  - as in him being 
wrong about Snape.

Did you base this argument on the fact that I said that I believe in 
Snape redemption? If so, then I am sorry to misrepresent myself.

I DO believe that Snape redemption will occur, as I said, I find it 
very unfortunate, BUT the redemption I believe will happen is NOT 
the one that DD!M Snape theorists ( or at least the majority of DD!M 
Snape theorists) talk about.

This is NOT the redemption of the man who did the right thing on the 
Tower, but the one who did the WRONG thing on the Tower ( nothing of 
following DD orders, fake AK or anything like that - NOT buying, 
sorry. Keep the possibilities in mind, but really not buying them 
till JKR says so :))

I suppose I should call it the redemption of OFH!Snape or Grey Snape 
or whatever you wish to call it.

This is the Snape who was NOT plotting Dumbledore's murder or 
anything like that, but the one who was being incredibly foolish and 
took the UV for whatever reasons, did NOT inform DD of the third 
clause (Siguine essay again) and on the Tower when DD wanted help, 
felt that it would not be very SMART to give him help, since then 
Snape will die.

This is the Snape who has "LATENT" good qualities ( which JKR said 
Sirius could not see), which to me indicate that those  good 
qualities did not wake up yet.

This Snape is driven by self-preservation primarily, BUT does love 
DD and that conflict causes him to regret what he did LATER.

This Snape did NOT make his choice yet and will do so probably at 
the end,when  he finally sees that Harry DOES have Lily's eyes ( 
Alla cringes again).

So, no, Pippin my Snape is NOT DD man or at least not completely 
such.


> But if someone else is the traitor, it would hardly be economical 
to 
> have Snape bear the responsibility for Dumbledore's death. 


Alla:

Wait, let me guess. To the multiple list of the evils that Lupin 
committed you now add DD's murder? Was Lupin on the Tower the same 
way he was at the Graveyard as "Second Wormtail"? <g>


Pippin:
> IMO, Snape does not need to be redeemed from loyalty to the Dark 
Side, 
> but only from his misdirected hate. 

Alla:

We agree on the "misdirected hate" part.


Alla,

who really wishes for Snape to turn out fully Evil, but based on the 
fact how much JKR does not want to talk about his loyalties, does 
not keept her hopes up to much.