Being Good and Evil (was:Re: Harry's arrogance (was Evil Snape)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 154478

> > >>Magpie:
> > But what does that prove, exactly? Betsy thinks it's harsh, you 
> > think Marietta deserves what she gets.  The facts stay the 
same,   
> > so obviously one side isn't just the end of the story. 
> 
Alla:

Yes, the facts stay the same, but Marietta does not stop being a 
traitor, does not she? So, that comes to either agreeing with what 
she did or disagreeing with what she did, no?

Or I guess the third option is to disapprove of what she did, but to 
think that her punishment was too harsh, right? (That is Betsy's 
position, right?)

But the thing is what plays into consideration the most IMO is how 
JKR evaluates the action, no? I mean for the purposes of writing 
about it.

I think she is pretty harsh on traitors. IMO of course.

> Betsy Hp:
> Exactly!  This is a *perfect* example of the "Because I am Good 
what 
> I do is Good, but if you do the same thing it's Bad, because you 
are 
> Bad" mindset.  That there are no rules governing behavior.  
Anything 
> goes if you're the right sort of person.  The Death Eaters can 
> torment a family of muggles and it's bad, because they're bad.  
But 
> the twins can torment a family of muggles and it's funny, because 
> they are good.

Alla:

But once again, how does Marietta comes into play? Is the argument 
that good guys like traitors IF they are good guys?

I did not see it anywhere.

And when Twins torment a family of muggles to me it is funny NOT 
because they are good ( although I love them), BUT because those 
muggles to me are so very horrible and yes, deserve everything that 
they get IMO of course.
  
Betsy Hp:
<SNIP> 
>> Not that the Malfoys are perfect, themselves, of course.  But to 
> Draco I'm sure they are.  So those who brawl, and manipulate, and 
> cheat to bring down his own could never be defined, by Draco, as 
> good.  In the end they behave exactly as Lucius would (if not in 
> quite the same style) to get what they want.  Again, there's not a 
> huge difference in behavior seperating the good guys from the bad 
> guys.  Not where Draco would see it, anyway.

Alla:

But should Draco's POV matter in evaluating his parents? I mean 
except the fact that they ARE his parents? His father is a member of 
the terrorist gang, that to me counts as much more than not perfect.

Yes, Draco does not get that he should be brought to justice, Draco 
does not get that law enforcement has every right IMO to act on 
their suspicion that Lucius has Dark objects in his manor, but why 
should it matter, if  they are able to prove Lucius guilt?

Draco can be upset, but does it matter in evaluating Arthur's 
behaviour? Does good guy becomes less a good guy, because he does 
everything possible to bring the bad guy to justice? Within legal 
means of course, as they are set up in WW, and it seems to me that 
raids of the mansions are perfectly legal.

Draco is upset, well, somebody should shake him IMO and explain him 
who his father really is and that his father MUST be punished and 
the guys who do it are NOT bad guys, his dear old dad is and his mom 
does not seem to be an angel either.

I do hope that the events of HBP shook Draco, I really do.

 
> Betsy Hp:
> I've met bigots who've changed (some in my own family) so there 
you 
> are. <g>  But the thing is, to Draco the *Order* is made up of 
> disgusting little bigots that should get what they deserve.

Alla:

And as I said above, why should it matter in deciding who is a good 
guy? I am absolutely serious here. 

Betsy Hp:
  It's 
> not until HBP that Draco sees or experiences anything that would 
> tell him differently.  So Draco is facing a moment where he can 
step 
> out of his family's shadow and examine things for himself.  I feel 
> like Harry will need to do something similar himself, especially 
> since he's yet to question his own bigotry.

Alla:

Harry had plenty of those moments IMO, discovering that the fate of 
wisarding world is on his shoulders was IMO only one of them.

Harry's innocence was torn from him IMO in Graveyard. I surely hope 
that this is what DD's death did to Draco.

 
JMO,

Alla