[HPforGrownups] Re: Snape Survey, Snapeity, Dumbledore's sacrifice.

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 149105

eggplant:
> To me the obvious explanation is that Dumbledore was pleading with
> Snape to tell him he had not been a fool for 17 years.

Magpie:
But WHY is he pleading with him to tell him he had not been a fool for 17 
years? Dumbledore has steadfastly maintained that he trusts Snape.  That's 
where the "fool" bit comes in, right?  So if he trusts him, why would he 
plead for Snape not to betray him just because Snape has entered the room? 
Snape has done nothing to give Dumbledore any reason at that point to think 
he's going to be betrayed, so why is he pleading with him?  Unless he never 
really trusted him.  I can certainly see a story about that kind of 
relationship between two men, but I don't think it fits the way the scene 
plays out.

eggplant:
I've heard some
> tortuous reasons to explain away Snape's expression of Hate as he was
> killing Dumbledore but none of them make a lot of sense to me, and
> nobody, absolutely positively nobody, has managed to come up with a
> plausible explanation of why Snape murdering the best wizard the good
> guys possessed helps the good guys.

Magpie:
Personally, I see nothing tortured (in the sense you're using the word) 
about Snape's look of hate being about what he's being made to do *if* he 
doesn't really want to do it.  Especially after I just had a scene where 
Harry was hating having to feed Dumbledore evil potion but doing it anyway. 
But I have no trouble with not knowing how Snape killing Dumbledore helps 
the good guys exactly yet, because I'm patiently awaiting more explanation 
for exactly what their relationship was and what was going on in the tower. 
If Snape walked in, took in the situation and decided he couldn't protect 
Dumbledore without risking his own life and so decided to kill him, that 
still doesn't seem like what's being played out there.  In terms of the 
story, obviously Dumbledore's number is up.  His role ends before the 
climax, Snape's role, imo, is more bound up in the finale.

eggplant:
That has not aided the good Snape
> theory. Nor can anybody explain why nobody informed Harry of this
> incredibly loopy plan so he would not hate a "good" Snape with as much
> intensity as he hates Voldemort, and probably put as much effort into
> killing Snape as Voldemort.  JKR is a wonderful writer but nobody
> could make a good book 7 out of that bilge.

Magpie:
Nope, I've got no explanation at all.  I'm thinking any explanation as to 
what was happening between Snape and Dumbledore in the tower will be in Book 
VII. Dumbledore has a habit of making plans that don't involve Harry knowing 
what's going on in just this way.  Drives Harry crazy.:-)

eggplant:>
> It's not a prediction but it's possible that Harry will dispose of
> Voldemort half way through the book and for the rest of the book he's
> after Snape.

Magpie:
I have a hard time thinking Voldemort, the personification of evil, will be 
disposed of in favor of Snape once Snape to kills somebody Harry cares 
about.  That seems like an inversion of priorities there--though I think 
you've argued in favor of that inversion.  Imo, there's a reason Voldemort 
is more difficult to kill, and in fact was killed once but lives on in many 
forms.  Snape is one man, Voldemort symbolizes something more abstract.

-m