[HPforGrownups] Re: Snape Survey, Snapeity, Dumbledore's sacrifice.

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 149137

"Magpie" <belviso at ...> wrote:

> if he trusts him, why would he plead
> for Snape not to betray him just
> because Snape has entered the room?

eggplant:
If you're incapacitated and prostrate on the floor and your tormentors
speak to your "friend" as an ally as he enters the room

Magpie:
You wouldn't if your "friend" was a double agent you know perfectly well you 
are running.  Why would Dumbledore be surprised to hear the Death Eaters 
speak to Snape in the role the Dumbledore himself places him in?  He 
wouldn't.

eggplant:
and your
"friend" has a look of extreme hatred as he looks at you and then your
"friend" takes out a weapon and aims it at you then it may be time to
reevaluate your friendship.

Magpie:
Again, Dumbledore starts pleading when Snape walks in the room.  If he is 
reevaluating his friendship due to Snape's look of hatred, JKR did not write 
that beat into the scene, and she has him pleading before it, not after.

eggplant:
You are on a jury, the defendant admits to shooting a man but claims
self defense, the prosecution says he killed the man for personal
reasons. You happen to have a photograph of the man's face the instant
he pulled the trigger and it clearly shows a look of hatred. Do you
conclude the man must be innocent because he "hated" doing it? I think not

Magpie:
I'm not on a jury. I'm reading a particular work of fiction which has 
provided a context in which this reading is simply not that tortured.

Magpie:
> Especially after I just had a scene
> where Harry was hating having to
> feed Dumbledore evil potion but
> doing it anyway.

eggplant:
If you looked at Harry's face at that instant I believe you would see
sadness and fear and shame and revulsion, but would you see hatred
etched in the harsh lines of his face? I think not.

Magpie:
I didn't say I would see a look of hatred on Harry's face in that scene.  I 
said that scene was one in which Dumbledore made Harry promise to do 
something that would hurt him.  Now this is Snape in a different scene.  The 
situation he's potentially in and his character makes his look of revulsion 
and hatred a very reasonable reaction, imo.

eggplant:
No, not in this way. This is very very serious business because it
could quite literally drive Harry crazy, and I include no smiley face.
Keeping this plot secret from Harry could lead to the death of a good
Snape and turn a very kind and very decent young man into a murderer.

Magpie:
Not knowing what Dumbledore was thinking yet, I don't yet feel we can make a 
judgment on the consequences and what he was thinking.

eggplant:
Dumbledore has made mistakes before, but not of this magnitude.

Magpie:
We don't know yet what it was, much less a mistake of a magnitude Dumbledore 
hasn't made before.  Which is an odd description anyway because in your 
scenario no matter what happened Dumbledore made a mistake of a greater 
magnitude than he ever has before.  Why is it okay for him to rely on a 
Death Eater but not okay to realistically keep something important from 
Harry?  He's made that mistake in the past.

eggplant:
Yes I have, Snape wants to be number one and to do that he must
eliminate the 2 wizards ahead of him.

Magpie:
I have to say, I don't see this working in any way.  It's not like the spot 
of "number one" is a literal job with Snape third in line behind Dumbledore 
and Voldemort.  If he gets rid of both of them he's an unemployed Potions 
teacher with a lot of enemies and that's it.

-m