Snape Survey, Snapeity, Dumbledore's sacrifice.

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 149154

> > Alla:
> >
> > No, sorry, I disagree. First of all, it is NOT a fact that JKR is
> > obligated to describe in details DD change of mind about Snape's
> > loyalties.
>
> Magpie:
> She didn't say JKR had to describe it in detail at all.  She said
it had to
> happen, or at the very least (being very generous) have a place to
happen,
> which it does not in this scene.

Alla:

Right, sorry, my bad. But she did say that Dumbledore's shock HAS to
happen, correct? I did not misunderstand that part? So, what I am
saying that it is EITHER unnecessary since for me it makes enough
sense without DD showing shock OR what
Harry saw was enough for me to feel DD shock.


Magpie:
<SNIP>
    We do not see Dumbledore's shock
> through Harry's eyes or anyone else's eyes.  We know Harry is in
shock to
> hear Dumbledore pleading (as soon as Snape enters the room) and
that's it.

Alla:

Right, but that is the thing. For me it is enough. From Harry being
shocked by DD pleading I can imagine that DD was being shocked
because of "for the first time in his life" part. It is unnecessary
for me for JKR to insert the part of "DD was looking shocked", etc.
Makes sense?

Magpie:
> Harry is shocked by Dumbledore pleading.  Dumbledore begins to
plead as soon
> as Snape enters the room.  Harry has reason to be shocked
(Dumbledore is
> pleading).  Dumbledore has no reason to be shocked.  Snape's been
entering
> rooms for years.  Why is it suddenly a betrayal for him to do so?

Alla:

For example so much had been argued ( not you, I am just saying in
general) in the past that DD and Snape communicated by legilimency.
I do not think that it had been wordless communications, but we KNOW
that legilimenc can pick up feelings, no? Who knows, maybe DD does
not need an eye contact to pick up Snape's emotions, maybe he sensed
betrayal the moment Snape entered the room. Just speculating here,
but IMO JKR can give us that and it can make total sense, to me
anyway.


> Magpie:
> I said that yes, Snape is certainly competent enough to come up
with a plan
> some of the DEs (not all) would listen to if Voldemort was
defeated.  That
> does not make him Voldemort Redux or the number 1 wizard in the
world.

Alla:

And what I am saying is that Snape does not NEED to be Voldemort's
redux or Number 1 Wizard in the world to lead DE. All he need is the
ability to keep DE under control and IMO he certainly has it.

Magpie:
  The
> DE as a group of people temporarily under the direction of Snape
or Lucius
> Malfoy or any other DE is a totally different kettle of fish than
the DE as
> Voldemort's minions.
<SNIP>

Alla:

Sure, they would be different, because instead of Voldemort as boss,
they will have Snape as a boss. Snape can have some other things
other than what Voldemort wanted in mind if he becomes a boss, sure
why not?

I just don't think that Voldemort is the ONLY one who can lead them,
that is all.

JMO,

Alla