Snape Survey, Snapeity, Dumbledore's sacrifice.

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 149271

eggplant107:

> So "Of course that is what he would tell you, Draco, but" suggests
> Dumbledore really believed Snape made that vow. It does???

Magpie:
It certainly doesn't prove that Dumbledore thinks he's lying about
the vow.  Like most of this story, it's intentionally vague:

"Of course that is what he would tell you, Draco, but Snape made
that promise with my consent."

"Of course that is what he would tell you, Draco, but in fact Snape
has been worried about your safety for some time."

"Of course that is what he would tell you, Draco, but Snape had been
looking after you long before your mother came to his house that
night."

However, I was not referring to that one sentence, I was referring
to Harry telling Dumbledore about the vow and Dumbledore not only
not showing any surprise but claiming to know more about the
situation than Harry does. (I realize that this fits fine with your
storyline where Dumbledore is actively denying the possibility that
this could be true.)  Dumbledore does later prove to know all about
Draco's task and the previous murder attempts, not to mention all
about Draco's mental state, which makes me lean towards seeing him
as more aware of what's going on, not less.

To bring it back to the Tower, I also lean that way due to the fact
that none of the important moments of the storyline where Dumbledore
clings to the belief that Snape has not made the vow, and quashes
his own doubts about it until moments before his death, are written
into the text.  If Dumbledore really didn't ever believe anything
about the vow, then it seems like he went to his death as ignorant
as ever.  Or at least his pleading had nothing to do with it.

In the absence of a moment where Dumbledore realizes that he's been
wrong all this time and Snape actually did make the vow, and a real
reason for him to finally figure it out after denying people telling
it to him outright, I can't see his pleading being due to suddenly
realizing he should have taken that UV story seriously.  Even in
your own explanation of the story, it seems that whenever it comes
time for a change to occur in Dumbledore, it's never there in the
text and always has to be imagined or rewritten.  You've snipped all
those parts, but I don't see how they can be so unimportant to your
theory.  If Dumbledore's having his firm convictions about denying
the vow shaken just by Draco repeating what Harry already told
Dumbledore Snape said to Draco, I'd think having to write in Snape's
murderous looks and Draco's claims he's been helping him all along,
and moments of suspicion and revelation for Dumbledore, might also
inspire some rethinking.

It's not that I don't see the idea that Dumbledore never knows about 
the vow that we know about, so is killed by it in the end.  It's in 
the text as a possibility ("Have you considered Snape was just 
pretending...?").  Even Harry thinks of Snape just pretending to 
help Draco.  But what there isn't is a moment where Dumbledore 
clearly realizes his mistake, which is what this thread was about.

-m