Hermione must be stopped, ...-Hermione's Crimes

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 149340

bboyminn:
> 
> So, by your way of thinking, it wasn't Harry's place to go after the
> Stone in the first book, neither was it his place to go to the 
Chamber
> of Secrets and rescue Ginny in the second, nor to help Ron escape 
from
> Sirius Black in the third, etc.... If Harry took your attitude, the
> world would be destroyed. If he sat back and let the adults handle 
it,
> pretty much ALL would be lost.

Ceridwen:
I'm curious.  Some people get passes, others don't.  Talking about 
characters here, not group members.  Not from you, you're pretty much 
well-reasoned.  I may not agree with your conclusions all the time, 
but usually, you are.

So, Draco is unredeemable because he was brought up to be a bigot, 
but Hermione is given a pass for various and sundry.  Why?  Same with 
the W twins.  Same with the Marauders.

On Harry, I think we all know he is a special case.  Since others 
have brought up Biblical references, let's do it here.  When Jesus 
was twelve, he slipped away from his group and sat with the wise men 
at the Temple.  His parents were rightly upset.  But according to the 
Bible, Jesus isn't an ordinary child.  He gets a pass from the church 
community, and any child who reads the story is told that Jesus is 
special.  Harry isn't Jesus, but in these stories, he has the same 
pass, for pretty much the same reason: he is marked to fulfill a 
certain function.  In rescuing Ginny, grabbing the stone, etc., etc., 
he is fulfilling part of his function, and gaining practice for the 
Main Event.

bboyminn:
*(snip)*
> 
> Now on to Hermione's crimes -
> 
> > Ceridwen:
> > 
> > It is never her place to play vigilante.  Not with Umbridge - 
> > Harry thought of it late, but he thought of it - Snape was there,
> > the only remaining member of the Order. ...
> > 
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> A quick look at Harry and Snape's relationship should explain this.
> Snape is at best Harry's adversary, at worst, his enemy. Perhaps not
> in reality, but in Harry's mind and his attitude. It would never 
occur
> to Harry, under any circumstances, to go to Snape for help. Snape is
> the bringer of misery, not the bringer of help; at least in Harry's 
mind.

Ceridwen:
But he did think of Snape.  On page 743, US, OotP, 'He had just 
realized something: he could not believe he had been so stupid as to 
forget it.  He had thought that all the members of the Order, all 
those who could help him save Sirius, were gone - but he had been 
wrong.  There was still a member of the Order of the Phoenix at 
Hogwarts - Snape.'

bboyminn:
> Regarding Umbridge, Umbridge is foul, as foul as they come. She was
> about to commit a capital crime, a felony, when Hermione stopped 
her.
> There wasn't a lot of time here to develop a detailed plan, so she
> made it up as she went along. I'm sure in the brief seconds she had 
to
> conceive the plan, she envisioned, the Centaurs chasing Umbridge 
away
> and letting the young 'foals' go.
*(snip)*

Ceridwen:
Harry thought of Snape.  Late, and only after Umbridge thought of him 
first.  But Hermione is usually one step ahead of Harry on the 
contemplative issues.  Maybe a full lap ahead.  Why didn't she think 
of Snape before Harry went frolicking off to Umbridge's office?  
She's thoughtful enough most of the time to do so, and she was 
warning Harry about the visions before they started the night's 
adventures.  Of the three, she seems to have the least animosity 
toward Snape.  He was the only Order member left.

bboyminn: 
> I'll make some allowances here for 'heat of the moment' in your
> statements. By your way of thinking, your apprarent moral standards,
> Hermione should have turned everything over to the 'adults', and let
> them send Rita to prison. That would have been the 'right' thing to 
do.

Ceridwen:
Probably a good thing to allow for.  This is a particular hot-button 
of mine.  I know I have a few, and Kidz Rooleen Teh Wurld is one of 
them.  Yes, I do think Hermione should have turned RS over to an 
adult.  For a few reasons.  Her age, sure.  And that on two levels.  
First, she has little RL experience.  Second, she has little 
experience dealing with a hard case like RS.  Someone else mentioned 
enemies.  RS is a bad one to have.  And, she shows signs of not 
caring much for Hermione after her imprisonment and enforced article-
writing - something about jamming an umbrella up her nose.

bboyminn:
> Yet, Hermione does show some mercy. So, she kept Rita in a jar for a
> couple of days, and let her go when they got to London. Sorry, but 
big
> deal. Hermione futher convinced Rita that it would be in her best
> interest to not write anything for a year to break her of the habit 
of
> writing lies about everyone. And Hermione was right, it was in 
Rita's
> best interest to do just that. Again, that seems very mild compared 
to
> the alternative. Rita's not really complaining because she knows she
> is getting off extremely easy.

Ceridwen:
And the longer Hermione sits on the evidence, the deeper she is in 
the secret.  She could be implicated in keeping RS's secret now, if 
anyone bothers to ask.  If RS gets a wild hair and decides to out 
herself no matter what the consequences, she could easily take 
Hermione with her - as both someone with prior knowledge (it's been a 
while and Hermione hasn't reported her), and as someone who was 
blackmailing her.

No idea that RS would do that to herself, but if she wanted to, she 
could.  This is the sort of thing where tables can be turned.

bboyminn: 
> So, doing what you seem to think is morally /right/ would have been
> devistating to Rita. It would have meant prison, and probably ruined
> her career and her reputation. Doing what you seem to think is 
morally
> /wrong/, Rita is a bit inconvenienced for a while. Again, I think if
> we left it up to Rita, she would gladly choose your 'wrong' over 
your
> 'right'.

Ceridwen:
And maybe the guy whose legs were broken by some local gang for 
messing up a drug deal would prefer the hospital bills, too.  We seem 
to differ on this.
> 
bboyminn:
> What Hermione did to Marietta never really bothered me. While 
Harry's
> little club as against the rules, it wasn't causing any harm, and
> Marietta was benefiting from it.  What does bother me is that 
Hermione
> hasn't UNDONE it.

Ceridwen:
Now here you get into one of my more moral dilemas.  To a point, I 
would rather see people working within the system to ditch an 
unworthy overseer.  But there are times when that isn't possible.  
The question is, where to draw the line?  It's clear that there is no 
absolute.  But what is jumping in too soon?

The DA is necessary.  The only harm it caused was to Umbridge's 
agenda, which was unproductive at its best, and downright harmful 
given the direction of events with LV.  I can see the club having 
penalties for 'traitors'.  But, two things - warn people before they 
sign on, and remove the damage once it is over with.  Hermione did 
neither.  So, you and I agree on that point.

bboyminn:
> 
> Surely you jest! Yes kid /should/ go to their parents in situations
> like this, but they never do. 

Ceridwen:
Marietta did.  That's what I meant.  She had a personal moral crisis, 
and went to her mother.  For this, she was punished.

bboyminn:
> 
> Unfortunately, what you think doesn't matter (in the story: no; in
> this group: yes).

Ceridwen:
I was pretty much under that impression.  Every time I look at the 
bank account, I am under that impression! *g*

This is just me, saying what I think.  Moral or not, agreeable or 
not.  As a reader, I have different criteria than I do when 
discussing the various points.  As a reader being taken through the 
stories, I thought it was great that Umbridge and Skeeter got 
theirs.  They have deserved it for far too long, judging by their 
attitudes.  They seem to think they can get away with anything, so it 
was funny, since we all know or know of, people like them.  I can 
even give a cheer for Marietta's blemishes, having known a couple of 
playground snitches in my time.  But, that's not where I'm coming 
from in this discussion, just so you know.  I'm imagining my own 
children (who do have private lives of their own - loud private 
lives) and the way I would advise them.

Ceridwen.