[HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione must be stopped, ...-High Noon for OFH!Snape

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 149423

Geoff:
I would tend to agree with kchuplis over this one. My usual dictionary 
defines "manipulative" as:
(1) tending to manipulate other people cleverly or unscrupulously. (2) 
relating to manipulate....
I would never use the word to describe positive action.

Magpie:
And to me, yup, that would be a good word to describe many actions of 
Hermione's.  I'm not bothered by it having some negative connotations.  I 
think you'd be hard-pressed to find words to honestly describe some of 
Hermione's actions that were glowingly positive.  They often aren't positive 
actions.  You can perform a negative action to acheive what you think is a 
positive result.  The girl's not afraid to get her hand's dirty.

Sydney:
(Who I also agree with--no surprise there!)
And it was a good plan, too, except for that darn third clause. Which I 
really wonder why Narcissa proposed it-- so Voldemort would be in such a 
good mood with D-dore dead, than he wouldn't just snap and kill both Draco 
and Snape?  Because she suspects Snape isn't loyal to V-mort, and worries 
that might threaten Draco?

Magpie:
This question now really stands out to me: why does she do it?  It's one of 
those moments that crosses the same sorts of lines I've been talking about 
in other threads.  The first two clauses are about protecting her son, the 
third clause is a promise to commit murder for him.  We know little about 
Narcissa, but we do know that in the last book she was the key to Sirius' 
death in that Kreacher went to her with the information about Harry.  Was 
she happy to have Sirius die?  Actively trying to get rid of Harry because 
she wants Lord Voldemort in power?  Or was she motivated by the idea that 
this would protect her family?  This would be after Harry outed Lucius as a 
DE in the Quibbler article, and I can imagine both Draco and Narcissa seeing 
that as an attack they need to retaliate against.

So.  Does Narcissa have something to gain by Dumbledore dying herself? 
That's hard to know. We know she doesn't gain from it--in fact, DD's death 
snatches away real protection for her family--but there could be some 
unknown reason for her wanting him to die.  Though getting into that seems 
like it would pull the plot off in an odd direction.

It also seems odd to imagine her testing Snape's loyalty in the scene.  I 
take her weeping at face value in that her goal is to protect her 
son--that's not a cover story to test Snape, imo.  Bellatrix is the truly 
loyal sister. For Narcissa to be doing this she'd have to be an incredible 
actress and a truly scary mother.

Much better to assume, imo, she sees this part of the vow as protecting 
Draco.  Does she worry that if Draco somehow survives his failed attempt 
Voldemort will just keep making him try to do it until he dies?  (She may be 
completely unaware of Voldemort's stated plans to kill Draco--and her--if he 
fails.)

It seems like Narcissa feels like she's putting an end to *something* with 
this, doesn't it?  The first two clauses are mushy, but the third is the 
real promise to act in a decisive way.  It's not something Snape can slither 
out of.  One way or another, this will have an end.  For some reason she's 
decided the task must get done by someone to protect Draco.

Perhaps she's actually thinking along the same lines as Dumbledore--if 
Dumbledore is dead at Snape's hand Draco can't kill him, thus Draco does not 
become a murderer.  Granted Voldemort could always send Draco to kill 
someone else, but somehow I feel that on the instinctual, quasi-mythical 
level on which the Voldemort story operates, it works to say that by 
removing the victim Narcissa feels Draco will be protected from the task. 
Snape, she must either know for a fact or assume, has already damaged his 
soul by killing.  He's an adult so should take the sin on himself.

The good thing about this is it a ties into the Lily parallel even more. 
Lily was protecting her baby from being murdered by being murdered herself. 
Narcissa is finding a way to protect her son from murdering by murdering 
herself by proxy.  It's a similar, standard parental impulse of "take me 
instead."  And the two threats fit the ages of the boys--Harry is a baby, 
the time of life when he's vulnerable.  Draco is just about to hit the age 
where he becomes a man.  Murdering someone would inhibit or warp that growth 
just as murder would have inhibited Harry's.  Just as Lily throws herself in 
front of baby Harry, Narcissa is sort of throwing herself in front of Draco, 
taking the task out of his hands and getting it done herself.

Ceridwen:
Ceridwen, who also agrees with Magpie, and who points out that she is 
currently manipulating a keyboard without anyone being aghast.

Magpie:
I'm typing with MY MIND!!! (couldn't resist)

-m