Hermione must be stopped, ...-Hermione's Crimes

[lunamk03]

No: HPFGUIDX 149452

Magpie:
::sigh:: I can't say I'm surprised at this response.  You asked me 
for
examples of Hermione being manipulative.  Manipulative means to 
influence or manage shrewdly or deviously.  

Luna again: 
to this concept I would add: to one's own advantage and 
gain. To me, being manipulative is to make someone else do what you 
want in order to achieve a vile, personal gain. The connotation to 
me is very negative.   

Magpie:
These are examples of Hermione fitting that
definition.  She is not actually doing the manipulating with 
Harry/Ginny but
because it was an example of her ability to see situations this way, 
and
Harry and Ginny actually refer to her as having done some good for 
them
there, I figured I would include it.


Luna:
 If we see the grey shades in this business, maybe Rita example 
could be included in this concept, after all, Hermione did get some 
personal gain: she got her revenge. But the black mail was serving, 
as I see it, to a higher objective. Hermione was making sure also 
that Rita wasn't going to harm someone else with her articles. She 
wasn't doing this entirely to her own, exclusive personal gain. And, 
I don't agree with the idea that poor Rita was starving herself 
during that year, she could have worked in other jobs, not as a 
journalist, of course, maybe not earning as much as she used to, but 
then again, enough to live, I guess.

The centaurs example could also, if you stretch it, be considered as 
manipulation, if it weren't for the fact that she was risking her 
own neck too. At the end she paid for underestimating the centaurs, 
things didn't go exactly as she would have wished. If it weren't for 
Grawp, who knows how Harry and Hermione would have ended up. Then 
again she wasn't doing it for her personal gain alone, she was 
helping Harry as well as Luna, Ginny, Ron and Neville at her own 
risk. 

Now, giving Ginny an advice as a friend, that, I must say, does not 
remotely qualify as an example of manipulation, not even on 
a "neutral sense." Hermione wasn't gaining anything from it, she 
wasn't influencing Ginny in a shrewdly or deviously manner. She 
didn't even have the slightest idea that even if Ginny was being 
herself, Harry would see her as more than Ron's little sister. 

Magpie:

It's a neutral, accurate (imo) description of her actions, not an 
insult to a friend in need of appeals for sympathy, justifications 
and more flattering language.

Luna:
I am not sure what do you mean with what you say above
 Where 
does flattering language appears between Ginny and Hermione??? 
Sorry, I am lost here.

Magpie:
Love making us do stupid things, dear, for instance, does not make it
suddenly not shrewd and devious management for Hermione to invite 
McClaggen
to a party to make Ron jealous after considering which boy would 
make Ron
the most angry. 

Luna:
Hermione was being totally stupid here, as I said before, love 
makes us do stupid things. I agree she was using McLaggen to make 
Ron jealous. Then again, the date was worst than crappy, she had to 
run for it! I was laughing my head off! She paid for this one also. 
Yes, it was shrewd management, manipulation at its best, but 
devious? No I don't agree. I don't see Hermione as a particularly 
devious character.  Had Hermione pursued a relationship with 
McLaggen, kissing him in front of Ron, etc
 Then, I have to say, it 
would have been devious. Had Hermione pursued with the same 
technique dating guys in and out to make Ron jealous for the rest of 
the book, then I would agree. Hermione seemed to have learned her 
lesson here, we see a great change in her during the second half of 
the book.
As you can see, in most cases, Hermione does end up getting what she 
was asking for. This is part of her growing up.  In no way I see her 
as a threat, devious, potentially harmful character that needs to be 
slapped, stopped or punished for her errors, she's already paid for 
her mistakes.