High Noon for OFH!Snape

[juli17 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 149474

Snipping liberally from several posts on this topic (with credit to  Sydney
for her inspiring argument against OFH!Snape):

Ceridwen:
Get ready for ESE!/OFH!Snape, then.  Out For Himself  because he's 
Ever So Evil and wants to be Supreme Overlord of the Planet,  and 
ruthlessly capable of evil manipulations and advanced magicks.   
Spelling intended.  I can easily see this composite version of Snape  
making an appearance in the countdown to book 7 (Harry Potter and the  
Jumble of Loose Threads? or, HP&JoLT?)  Not my fave flavor of  Snape, 
not at all.  But, be prepared.
Julie:
I have one major problem this Snape who wants to be the  Overlord
of the Planet. When have we ever seen evidence of this Snape? 
He wants respect, yes, and glory, yes, but power? Certainly he's
willing to use his power as a teacher to make his students miserable,
but from all evidence it's not a position he even likes. Does he  really
want to rule the world, and have to interact with all those tedious 
minions, who aren't so much different from the dunderheads he 
teaches? I think he'd rather just be left alone!
 
Nora:
I see the killing of Dumbledore as the outcome of the Vow,  
naturally.  What I can't discount is that Snape had his own reasons  
for taking the Vow which may seem suicidal or foolish to us, but  
beneficial enough to him for him to swing it.  Hence  
incommensurability.

Julie:
Er, what reasons? Do you have possible theories? 
 
-Nora again:
 waits with amusement for the potential scream of "That's IT?"  
when Snape's mysteries collapse, just like the screaming onlist after  
the Prophecy


Julie:
None of the Snapes, be it DDM, OFH, ESE, or LID, come off as
That'sIT?!Snape to me. Whatever he turns out to be, and why,  it's
still going to be a revelation about a man we still don't know  from
Adam, even after 6 books with his always snarky and  ever-expanding
presence. I know it's irritating to some, but JKR didn't make him  the
most mysterious character in the HP books *by far* simply to sweep 
him nonchalantly under the rug in Book 7 ;-)
 
Lupinlore:
, who gleefully anticipates the howls that will result as 
the Snape  mysteries collapse, and who is laying in popcorn for the 
show (as well as  Thorazine to suppress the projectile vomiting sure 
to result if JKR settles  on the more extreme versions of DDM!Snape, 
especially the -- IMO --  ludicrously poor writing inherent in a 
Snape/Lily infatuation).
 
Julie:
Might I suggest you spoil yourself beforehand, and if the  concluding
book of the series turns out to be the ludicrous, abominable,  poorly
written, reprehensible excuse of child abuse that you're  expecting,
then you can not only save the cost of purchasing the book, but 
also save yourself the immense discomfort of projectile vomiting  or
popping pills unnecessarily!
 
Sydney:
> 
> I think Narcissa proposed, and Snape took, the Vow, because  it was the
> only way to protect Draco from Voldemort.  Voldemort  intended Draco to
> be killed, and if he doesn't die in the attempt, he  will be killed
> afterwards-- "He told me to do it or he'd kill  me".   

Neri:
For some reason you don't give your theory a  name. Would Noble!Snape
be fair? He took the UV in order to save Draco's  life, without any
additional reason. My problem with this is, as I wrote  above, that
Noble!Snape, when taken in combination with DDM!Snape, is no less  a
pathetic jerk than Suicidal!Snape. He wanted to save the life of  his
student, so ended up killing his headmaster instead. Oops.
 
Julie:
Actually it can go like this. Noble!Snape (at least in this  instance)
took the UV to save Draco's life, because he is fond of Draco and
feels some responsibility for him. The third part of the Vow caught
him unawares, but by then it was too late. He plowed ahead with
it, perhaps morphing into Arrogant!Snape ("I can outwit the vow")
tempered by Sacrificial!Snape ("If I can't outwit the vow, then I'll  break
it rather than kill Dumbledore, even if I die instead"). But once  Snape
told Dumbledore about the Vow, Dumbledore nixed Snape's plan,
insisting if push came to shove, Snape must kill Dumbledore rather
than sacrifice himself. And Snape, very unhappily and perhaps 
resentfully, complied when push did come to shove on the Tower.
Thus DDM!Snape comes out on top in the end. 
 
PJ wrote:
However, the 3rd provision of the vow was never on Snape's radar at  all!  It 
took him totally by surprise and is the spot where his  arrogance did him 
in...  There's no reason to put that "twitch" in the  scene unless it means 
something.

Julie:
EXACTLY! And since Snape didn't expect the third part, the first  two
were easy to take, as it involved nothing more than protecting a  boy
he cares about. No DDM conflict at all until the third part, and then 
it's too late to back out (in Arrogant/Sacrificial!Snape's perhaps  faulty
reasoning, anyway). 




Sydney:
> Last man standing:  decent, cunning, miserable,  instinctively-Dark,
>  trying-to-do-the-right-thing-yet-screwing-up,
>  not-too-fond-of-being-alive, Snape.  That's my boy.

Julie:
I hope you don't mind sharing, because that's also my Snape!
(Along with the others I mentioned above; it seems the man has 
more personalities than Sybil!)
 
PJ:
As I read it, and I grant you it doesn't have a lot of excitement or  oomph! 
about it (though it does have it's basis in canon), Snape owes James  a Life 
Debt from the time of the prank but never got to fulfill it while  James was 
alive.  Hating loose ends, the debt (whether willingly or  magically) is 
transfered to James' son, Harry.  I'll admit it helps to  explain a few pesky 
little problems though it doesn't thrill me.

Julie:
I just don't get why OFH!Snape, siding with whoever's likely to  win, and
switching sides accordingly, is so bothered by the life debt. If Snape  is
this cold, calculating, OFH guy, why would he care if he ever  repaid
that debt to a man he'd just consider a fool for saving a hated  enemy.
What do loose ends matter, if all that matters is your own welfare?
(I note that we don't yet know if there is anything physically binding  in
a life debt, let alone whether Snape did or didn't pay that debt by
attempting to save Harry in PS/SS.)
 
Neri:
 And yet during the flight Snape is "sneering" and "jeering"  at
Harry. He's not behaving as if he's atoning for his majestically
failed  attempt to atone for the previous failures. Well, I guess you
can explain  this with the usual DDM!Snape argument "he's acting" but
it would hardly be  straightforward reading.
 
Julie:
I assume you mean the fight between Snape and Harry, which wasn't
really a fight as much as an offense (Harry) versus a defense  (Snape)
and a pretty incompetent offense at that. If there's one thing Snape
can't stand, it's incompetence, and here's Harry, making one easily
parried attack after another. This is the kid who's supposed to  defeat
the Dark Lord in the near future? It's enough to cause anyone who's
just tossed his life in the garbage to sneer and jeer some, no acting
necessary. And, for Snape, it's a very straightforward reaction.
 

Neri:
If you still find LID!Snape vague, try reading "The Flight of  the
Prince" again, assuming that Snape had no problem AK'ing  Dumbledore
but he's magically compelled to protect Harry because of his Debt  to
James. All his words, emotions and actions suddenly become  completely
straightforward.

Julie:
I actually think Snape *is* magically compelled to protect Harry,  either
via something that happened at or right after Godric's Hollow. or via  an
agreement with Dumbledore. Snape protecting Harry, which he's been
doing all along, even after Dumbledore implied Snape had dispatched
his life debt to James in PS/SS, is as compatible with DDM as LID,
IMO. 
 
Nora:
I see Snape's arrogance in a slightly different streak: he's very, 
very  sure of himself to the point of refusing to hear or admit other  
viewpoints.  The classic example of this is during his rage in PoA,  
both in the Shack itself and afterwards.  A forgiving reading is that  
he's so upset he's lost reason, but it does reveal something  
interesting: I think he feels deeply *threatened* by the idea that 
his  constructed paradigm could turn out to be wrong.  He's so certain 
about  Black and Lupin being guilty that he refuses to consider 
evidence that they  may not be, leading to his public meltdown at the 
end of the book.
 
Julie:
Hmm, why does this sound so analogous to Harry's hatred of  Snape?
Harry willingly ignores the evidence so he can keep blaming Snape
for the death of Sirius (even as he acknowledges his irrationality).
Harry refuses to accept Dumbledore's trust of Snape, though he is
willing to trust him on virtually every other issue, up to making a
promise to pour poison down his throat. Harry twists Dumbledore's
words about Snape's remorse to imply that remorse happened 
*after* James and Lily were dead. Harry doesn't even blink at  the
lapses of logic in the events on the Tower (Dumbledore pleading...
for what? Snape not killing or taking him to Voldemort...why not?
and so on). It's unconscious, this twisting to fit his view of evil
Snape, because he's emotionally invested in his hatred. Just
as Snape twists events in his mind and ignores logic that puts 
any doubt on his emotionally invested belief of Sirius's guilt.
 
And that has nothing to do with arrogance, or being sure of oneself.
It's all about invested emotion, and clinging to it in the face


Nora:
-would provide, on request, her list of favorite dramatic  
scenes/moments or character tidbits which proved not to be much of  
anything complex or deep in the long run (yet)
 
Julie:
I'm curious. Please provide :-)
 
 
Julie 





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