[HPforGrownups] Re: Snape's half truths in "Spinner's End"

[Magda Grantwich]

No: HPFGUIDX 149550

>>Magda:
>>He doesn't know what he's talking about but he THINKS he does.  
>>This is how the DADA curse plays out for Snape: the curse brings 
>>out the worst in each DADA professor in the series.  What's "the 
>>worst" in Snape? His tendency to jump to conclusions.

>Magpie:
>Oh.  So this is a slightly different scenario.  Snape isn't trying 
>to get information from Bella and Cissy; he's not bluffing when he 
>thinks he knows the task.  He just has the wrong idea about the 
>task.  We just never are never told what Snape thought he was vowing

>to do and how he found out otherwise.


Yes, that's basically my view.  Although I would say that he found
out otherwise when he emerged at the top of the tower and a DE said
"The boy doesn't seem able to..." and Dumbledore was the only target
in sight.  


>>Magda:
>>IMO Snape never did know what Draco's task was - not until the very

>>climax of the book at the top of the tower. He spent all year 
>>assuming that Draco's task was to kill HARRY and then trying to
keep
>>the two of them apart so that Draco wouldn't have the chance.

>Magpie:
>Ah!  There's the story, though we're still not told it in canon.  I 
>can't honestly say I see any evidence for this in the book.  There 
>are no scenes of Snape actively keeping Harry and Draco apart that I

>can remember, and Harry's following Draco around, not vice versa. 
>You'd think if he was watching them Snape would notice that.  And 
>notice that the bottle of poisoned wine was supposed to be for DD.  
>Harry doesn't even drink wine.


Well, Snape goes down to the gates to pick up Harry when he's late
for the feast - to check out what happened, I'm sure.  He also gives
Harry a Saturday detention after the sectumsempra (sp?) incident
which keeps him off the quidditch pitch - another place that
"accidents" might happen.  Snape was also concerned - visibly - when
Draco was caught trying to crash Slughorn's Christmas party - a party
where Harry was present.  

He also gave detentions to Crabbe and Goyle, so that Draco's henchmen
weren't available to him if he was planning to ambush Harry. 
(Showing that Snape knows a lot about Draco's history of tactics.)

And I don't think the wine matters.  It was in Slughorn's office,
never left it.  Why should Snape assume that Draco would poison
anyone?  And for that matter, why would Snape assume that Draco had
anything to do with the necklace either?  Or if he did, why assume it
had anything to do with Harry?

Snape would have been looking for signs of the same tactics Draco had
used for years: ambush, assault, quidditch tricks.  


>>Magda:
>>And I think when he left Dumbledore pondered the situation, 
>>considered his own knowledge of Tom Riddle and came to the correct 
>>conclusion: that Voldemort wants to kill Harry himself and that the

>>subject of Draco's task was himself. And he decided not to tell 
>>Snape but let him go on thinking that Harry was the target.

>Magpie:
>Whoa!  The thing going on that we don't see at all is getting more 
>complicated.  Since we don't see any beats of this story, I don't 
>see how they really make up the plot of the book. So if Snape didn't

>realize what he was supposed to do until he's on the tower, you're 
>saying that he shows up and looks around, sees Draco there with the 
>DEs and DD, doesn't see Harry there, and then realizes who he's 
>supposed to kill according to the vow?


Yes, that's what I'm saying.


>Magpie
>I'm afraid I've got the same problem with this as I do to the 
>scenario where DD realizes here that Snape has betrayed him.  
>There's no moment of realization for Snape.  I don't recall him 
>having any change between looking around and striding forward, 
>knocking Draco out of the way.  I'd think he'd need a moment to 
>process the information he's been wrong all along.  A moment of 
>confusion and dawning understanding that he's got to kill this guy--
>and time to decide if he's going to.


Snape charges up to the Tower and finds Draco and three DE's with
Dumbledore.  He looks around - no visible Harry.  One of the DE's
says, "we've got a problem Snape, the boy doesn't seem able to -"  I
would submit that in that moment he realized who the target was.  At
the time, that DE's comment struck me as inserted specifically for a
purpose - and I deduce that the purpose for to inform Snape of
Draco's real target.

I don't think Snape would ever show confusion; he covers it up with
anger.

>>Magda:
>>And DD's stern warning that Snape had agreed to the Vow and would 
>>have to honour it probably shocked Snape who couldn't reconcile it 
>>with Dumbledore's apparent care for the boy.

>Magpie:
>Dangerous game that DD's playing there, giving Snape orders to kill 
>Harry Potter.  He's lucky Snape didn't fulfill that vow in a fit of 
>temper many times throughout the year. Another thing surprising 
>about it is that I'd expect Snape to be angrier than ever at Harry 
>if the vow was over him.  I think JKR would write in moments in 
>their interactions connected to Snape's vow.

Snape would never physically hurt a student, even Harry Potter.  I
doubt that Dumbledore ever lost a wink of sleep over that issue.  And
personally I don't see why Snape would hold it against Harry that
Snape got the wrong idea.  (Hold it against Draco - you betcha, but
that's a different issue.) He already dislikes Harry for plenty of
Harry-related stuff; this wouldn't qualify.

As for writing in moments of their interactions connected to the vow
- well, she didn't so there's not much we can do about it.

>zgirnius:
>This theory has some appeal for me, since the first time through the

>book, this is what *I* believed Draco's task to be. However, the 
>train scene disabused me of that notion. Draco had an opportunity to

>kill Harry offered him on a platter, and what did he do? He broke 
>his nose and left him on the train. I really think Snape must have 
>figured out that Harry was not Draco's target at this point as well.

Maybe not.  He might have figured that Harry had fended Draco off
(knowing that Draco's track record in beating Harry up hasn't been
exactly impressive) or that Draco was interupted.  

We have all seen how tenaciously Snape clings to a belief once he's
got it into his head.  I see no difference in this book.

Magda


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