When did Draco Imperius Rosmerta?/Seeds of Betrayal/LiD!Snape rides again

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 149753

Sydney:

apologizing to Magpie for disrespecting Draco..

Magpie:
Heh--I confess I didn't even catch the diss since I agree.:-)  It's 
very hard to reconcile the kid who, after months of effort with crying 
breaks, managed to fix the furniture with the kid keeping a grown 
woman bent to his will for months.  I don't know how hard Imperio is 
supposed to be (we hear about a "badly performed one" early on), but 
it really seems like you need a certain force of personality that 
Draco doesn't have.  Is it ironic that Draco, who is not in control 
and feels bullied, is keeping someone else a slave?  Or does it just 
make it that much harder to believe he's able to sustain Imperio?  My 
instinct says the latter.

I do agree with Betsy that he was focused, though. :-) 

I haven't given much thought to Draco's helper, but the more people 
talk about it the more sense it makes that he could have had a helper 
outside the school who was responsible for Imperio-ing Rosmerta in 
case Draco needed her.  In the scene where we find out about it I 
believe the language is very impersonal "How long has she been under 
Imperius?" as opposed to "You imperiused her."  

I remember Blaise's appearence really sticking out in my mind in that 
chapter at the pub, but I'm not sure if maybe he wasn't a red 
herring.  Like he was just there for us to suspect him, since Draco 
was in detention.

PJ:
All very true but how could Bellatrix be in the RoR to help Draco fix 
the cabinet?  I may very well be *wrong* (it happens....often) but 
there was something in the way he worded it that made me read "help" 
as meaning *physical* assistance.  His frustration was with the 
cabinet so it would make sense imo to have someone with him who was 
somewhat familiar with how the cabinet worked and could help him 
repair it.  It's not just a matter of putting a few screws into it.  
Anyone can do that.  But I think the magic would have to be realligned 
with the other piece or they wouldn't work as a set.

Magpie
I think the Cabinet was one thing that was absolutely secret, with 
only Draco and Borgin knowing (and Borgin only a little).  I just 
can't imagine that he had anyone actually physically helping him fix 
it.  It seems important, somehow, that he did that on his own (making 
him feel alone, having it all be on his shoulders, his wanting it to 
be his triumph, explaining why it took so long).  I think the 
reference to outside help fits bets if Draco is hinting about 
Rosemerta and possibly whoever Imperiused her for him (like a gift!).  
The story's over now, so I don't see much point to not revealing until 
Book VII that there was someone else in the school.  I think the 
Rosemerta story is supposed to go with Draco's claim to have help.  
Revealing that Bella or someone did something outside the school is 
more set up and takes less explaining post-HBP than someone in the 
school.

Geoff:
My interpretation of the scene on the tower is probably diametrically 
opposed to yours –which seems to be our traditional stance(!)

Magpie:
Do you mean me or a_svirn?  Because I thought I agreed with your 
description here.:-)  Though in that discussion I was specifically 
talking about Draco's speaking of the two attempted murders that 
resulted in Ron and Katie being hurt, and there he allows most of 
Dumbledore's criticism to stand unchallenged.  Had he bragged about 
these things, we might know more about the details.  

Alla:
I am not dismissing Snape being mad at Sirius for Potters death. I AM
though disagreeing that Snape IS able to handle the Prank memories. I
do think that it makes him completely irrational ( and of course he
has a right to be irrational, since even though I am pretty positive
that Sirius did not mean to kill Snape, I do think that Snape honestly
believes that he did mean to do exactly that).

Magpie:
Oh, I think he does get irrational when the Prank comes up, yes.  But 
it seems much more natural a progression for the Prank to lead into 
other things.  The stuff that potentially resulted from the Prank (his 
first feeling indebted to James and perhaps it contributing to his 
joining to the DEs) is more related to the story now.  For Snape to 
betray Dumbledore based on a complete regression to his thoughts about 
the Prank seems to, imo, require far more explanation that's 
completely off-screen.  When's the moment Snape regressed completely 
and why and how, given the history?  How is he clearly, in retrospect, 
different before and after that turning point? And why does he take 
the vow, in that case?  Hmm...now I'm thinking about PoA and how 
Dumbledore's "My memory is as good as it ever was" is reminding me 
of "Yes, Harry, I heard every word you said about Snape and Malfoy and 
understood it just fine."

-m