[HPforGrownups] Re: Portkey in GOF - Logistics - Perspective

[Kemper]

No: HPFGUIDX 149841

 > Earlier Kemper responded to bboyminn:
> > He doesn't even want to take over the British WW, what makes you
> > think he wants to take over the world?!  He had opportunity as a
> > young man to go into politics but didn't take it.  He could've
> > changed things from the inside to become Emperor someday ... but
> > he chose differently.  Your despots went this route, but the
> > Voldemort you see hasn't.
> >
>
> bboyminn responded back:
>
> He doesn't want to take over the British WW? Really? Then what is this
> all about? Why is he doing the things he's doing? Just a rabble-rouser
> or malcontent?
>
> Clearly, Voldemort wants to take over. Characters in the book have
> impied as much several times. JKR has said it herself. While his short
> term goal is to take over the British wizard world, power hungry
> deranged men like this are seldom satisfied, so I don't think it is
> such a great leap to think that his long range goal is world
> domination (ala-Pinky and the Brain). He may not achieve it, but I
> have no doubt that he intends to extend his influence as far and wide
> as he possibly can.
>

Kemper Now:
Yes, other wizards/witches have talked about him gaining control, but of
what?  Definitely not the government.  Which isn't to say that there wasn't
any influence, but far from a coup. I think it's more important to him to
bring about a Dark Order, as a creedo for one's life.  I believe Voldemort
wants to influence the world, like Christ, more than he wants to control the
world like Ceasar.

JKR says that if Voldemort looked in the Mirror of Esired, he would see
himself as all-powerful and eternal.  I suppose with a narrow view to what
'all-powerful' means you would be left with 'world domination'.  But if
you broaden your scope to take in other possible definitions, it would
include 'the omnicient, almighty, supreme being'.

So do you think he would rather rule the world and be less than magically
superior, or would he rather be the most omnicient, almighty, supreme
magical being?

 > > Steve continues:
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, Voldemort is secretive, but that doesn't eliminate the
> > > fact that he is an egomaniacal megalomaniac. ...
> > >
> > > If that isn't pure theater on the world stage, then I don't
> > >know what is.
> > >
> ...
>
> > > ...One quick look at the 'Evil Overlords Handbook' would show
> > > them the folly of their ways, but it would make for very dull
> > > stories.
> > >
> >
> > Kemper responded:
> > I'm saying that Voldemort, though narcisistic, isn't an attention
> > whore.  You're saying he is.
> > ...
> > ...  I'm argueing your belief that it is Voldemort a drama queen
> > more than an Evil Overlord.
>
> bboyminn then:
>
> Ahhh... now we are at the heart of it. ... I am attempting to find a
> balanced view of the nature of
> Voldemort's attention seeking.
>
> Yes, both Voldemort and Osama are somewhat recluses. ... But
> great and terrible deeds are done in their name and at their bidding,
> and Voldemort has created a name that is so feared it is never or
> rarely spoken. It's hard to accept that that level of self-inflicted
> notoriety is not 'attention seeking'.
>

Kemper now:
I'm sure you mean 'or' at their bidding.
But great and terrible things have been in Jesus' name as well.  People who
allow the darkness within them to take over are going to say whatever to
make their actions 'right' if immoral.  I have a hard time believe bin Laden
or Voldemort micromanage every acts: scare tactics and muggle baiting, so
long as their ideology is promoted.

 bboyminn continues:  One does not actively and aggressively work to make
> one's name known
> and fear as the most great, powerful, and terrible wizard in the
> world, if one is a true recluse.
>

Kemper now:
I don't think we have enough info to suggest that Voldemort made it a
mandate for all his followers to call him the Dark Lord over Lord
Voldemort.  To me, it sounds like years ago someone may have started calling
him Dark Lord as a sycophant act and then others took it up thereby making
the sobriquet ingrained into the DE culture.  Voldemort did nothing to
dissuade others because it works to his image, but is that a
passive/aggressive, attention-whore move or merely public relations?


> > Kemper concluded:
> >
> > I worked out Voldemort's reason to wait til the third task
> > instead of  earlier as follows:
> > he wanted to return to Hogwarts with his Death Eaters using the
> > portkey for a multiple-school ... massacre that would leave the
> > WW emotionally lost and dark.
> > That isn't theater, that's terror.
>
> bboyminn wraps up:
>
> As others have already established Terror is precisely grand theater
> on the 'world stage'.
>
> As far as your proposed 'captuure Harry' scenario, I responded to it
> as far as you took it. As far as you took it, it was flawed. Now that
> you've taken it a little farther, it is in the realm of possibility.
> That is unless you are playing on the world stage.
>
> For Harry to simply randomly disappear, or even to disappear from of
> Moody's office, creates too slow and too soft a response on the world
> stage (ie: in the media). For him to disappear at a major high profile
> event, in front of the Ministry, Dumbledore, and the world, that plays
> much better and induces much greater fear when it play so vividly on
> the world stage.
>

Kemper now:
Having Harry die a martyr in front of all would not be as scary as Harry
disappearing without a trace.  But as I said earlier, I'm not disputing
JKR's sense of story.  She's a master storyteller, and I'm not lame (winks
at Carol) enough to think otherwise.

Kemper, adding scope and perspective to the discussion and who appreciates
steve for bringing the funny into the discussion when he compared the Death
Eaters and Voldemort to the WB's Pinky and the Brain.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]