[HPforGrownups] Re: The end of the Secret (Was: The lack of Obliviators and the Press at GH )

[Kemper]

No: HPFGUIDX 149903

> PJ wrote:
> > When Dumbledore wrote the information on that piece of paper he
> didn't "speak" the location so the secret wasn't broken, just shared.
> If PP TOLD (verbalized) the location of the Potters to Voldemort then
> there would no longer be a secret to keep.  At least that's how I
> understood JKR's answer on SK's.  Once spoken the secret is no longer
> a secret.
>
> Carol responds:
> Actually, that's not quite what JKR says. Her words are, "the only
> people who ever knew their precise location were those whom Wormtail
> had told directly." So telling the secret, either in spoken or written
> form, doesn't break the spell. It only enables people who aren't the
> Secret Keeper to know the secret (but not reveal it).
>
> Also, the secret, as JKR makes clear, is "the precise location" of
> their hiding place. Once the Potters have been discovered by the very
> wizard from whom they're hiding, the secret ceases to serve its
> purpose, though it's possible that it's still a secret from those who
> haven't been told (e.g., the Muggles in Godric's Hollow). However,
> when two of the Potters are dead--obviously no longer in hiding--and
> the third is sitting helplessly among the ruins of the hiding place,
> which no longer exists, the spell is surely destroyed. I agree with PJ
> that the secret ceases to exist on the night of Godric's Hollow, but
> not because PP spoke it aloud. It's destroyed because "the Potters are
> hiding at [specific address] in Godric's Hollow" is no longer a viable
> secret or even a true statement. The hiding place and two of the
> people who were hiding ("the subjects of the secret," in JKR's words)
> no longer exist; the third subject is no longer hidden. There is no
> secret to be kept.

Kemper now:
I only think the spell is destroyed (or the secret out), if the location is
destroyed not the subjects.  I think by 'subject' JKR meant the name of the
location:

'The Headquaters for the Order of the Phoenix may be found at ....'

Here 'The.... Phoenix' is the name/subject.  Similarly, 'The Hiding Place
for the Potters' is the name/subject of the location, but not the location
itself.

When Emmaline Vance was murdered, the location of the Order of the Phoenix
was not revealed.

I'm guessing that whoever performed the SK spell (Sirius?Pettigrew?), the
location was defined, more or less, as the Potter/Dumbledore House in Godric
Hollow, which could be perceived as a 'precise location'.  Thus if the House
is destroyed, so is the secret.  So... if it is possible to apparate the
house around the Godric Hollow neighborhood, then the house is still a
secret location for The Hiding Place of the Potters.  Alternately, if it was
the specific address of the house (731 Rowling Lane), and the house was
apparating around the Godric neighborhood, the house would immediately be
seen until it returns to the location of 731 Rowling Lane.

And why would the spell be worded so poorly (similar to the first two vows
of the UV), because the caster is either a bit arrogant or a bit eager to
tell his master to care.  But that's a different thread.


> Carol goes on:
> To speculate a bit: (Kemper condences Carol's thoughts into a digest: DD
knew location, the SK was performed, DD couldn't recall the location, LV
destroyed the house,  DD suddenly remembers the location and knows
somethings wrong)

> But (speculation again) if Severus Snape also woke up, feeling a
> terrible pain in his left arm as LV was ripped from his body and
> pushing up his sleeve to watch as the Dark Mark faded to almost
> nothing, then rushed up seven flights of stairs to inform Dumbledore
> of this strange news, DD and SS together would have figured out what
> happened--the adult Potters were discovered and betrayed, perhaps
> dead, but Voldemort was weakened and nearly destroyed, which could
> only mean that the child "born as the seventh month dies" had somehow
> defeated him and was still alive.

Kemper now:
I'm not fond of your speculation about DD not for any canonical reasons,
it's possible but it doesn't feel right, but I support your Snape spec.

-Kemper


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