Maligning Lupin

[spotsgal]

No: HPFGUIDX 149940

>> Christina:
>> Of course, ESE!Lupin would never have had a problem if he just 
>> hadn't told Sirius about the prophecy in the first place, so I'm 
>> a bit confused as to why he would have done so.

> Pippin:
> As for why Lupin told him, their whole relationship was based on
> shared secrets.

Christina:

Their childhood relationship, perhaps, but their adult 
relationship?  No way.  Lupin absolutely holds all the cards - there 
is no reason for him to tell Sirius a secret to keep his 
friendship.  Lupin is the first person to believe Sirius's story, he 
stays with Sirius in 12GP, he tries to resolve conflicts between 
Sirius and other members of the Order.  Sirius probably still has 
some residual guilt over his questioning Lupin's loyalty.  There's 
also the power of nostalgia, and the shared pain between the two 
men.  There is no need for Lupin to make extra overtures of 
friendship.  Lupin telling Sirius a "secret" to keep their 
friendship going also doesn't make sense if you consider the fact 
that Sirius obviously did not *know* it was a secret if he blurted 
it out in a crowded room.  Defeats the purpose, really.


>> Christina:
>> It isn't a matter of being for or against werewolf liberation.  
>> Each side of the war has a different view of what "werewolf 
>> liberation" means.  For LV, it's giving the werewolves fresh meat 
>> and the ability to get revenge on wizardfolk.  For Dumbledore, 
>> it's providing the werewolves with education and jobs.  I think 
>> Lupin can tell the difference.

> Pippin:
> In any case, Dumbledore hasn't been able to do much to provide the
> werewolves with education and jobs. 

Christina:

And Voldemort has done more?


> Pippin:
> Cheerful and resigned to his lot is the Uncle Tom stereotype.
> It's hollow and demeaning and I'll be surprised if JKR doesn't
> point that out in the end.

Christina:

A stereotype that JKR has ample opportunity to explore with the 
house elves, which parallels American slavery much better than 
lycanthropy.  I also should have been clearer.  I think that Lupin 
cares about werewolf discrimination, and I think he wants it to 
end.  Which is why he is allied with Dumbledore in the first place - 
so that other people may take advantage of the benefits he had.  
What I meant was that Lupin doesn't have much passion.  He doesn't 
have anger.  He doesn't make Sirius-type emotional declarations.  

Fenrir Greyback and his followers are *angry* about their lot in 
life and want *revenge*.  They don't care about equality; they want 
to "create enough werewolves to overcome the wizards (HBP, Ch 16)."  
Lupin has a cooler head than that; that's why I think it's unlikely 
that he would fall prey to Voldemort's empty promises.  Fenrir uses 
anger as his rallying cry, hoping to stir up a swirl of emotion.  I 
just can't see that working on Lupin.

Your theory also requires that Voldemort be making nice with the  
werewolves in the first war.  Is there evidence that this was even 
the case?  I've dug around a bit and haven't found anything.


> Pippin:
> ::shrug:: To paraphrase Arthur, when you're dealing with a witch
> like Umbridge, sometimes you have to join forces with people you'd 
> rather avoid.


Christina:

I understand the concept of the lesser of two evils.  But I still 
fail to see how *Voldemort* ends up being the lesser of two evils.  
Dumbledore does not equal the Ministry; they have a history of 
friction.  The Ministry is often hiding in the corner, covering 
their ears (or throwing their hands up in resignation), while 
Dumbledore is taking active steps to thwart Voldemort.  There are 
not two choices here - there are three.

> Pippin:
> Lupin was naive enough not to believe what he'd heard about Fenrir.
> Maybe he was naive enough not to believe what he'd heard about
> Voldemort too.

Christina:

When was Lupin "naive enough not to believe what he'd heard about 
Fenrir"?  Lupin says that he felt pity for the werewolf who bit him 
as a child, but that was before he got information about Fenrir 
Greyback.  There's no reason to believe that Lupin disbelieved 
anything he had heard about Greyback.

>> Christina:
>> The bottom line for me, theoretically, is that ESE!Lupin 
>> completely fails the litmus test I give to all theories - What 
>> questions does this theory answer?

I'm snipping the questions you posed that have plausable answers 
given or very strongly hinted at in the canon.  I'm also snipping 
questions that have been discussed to death, ones that have common-
sense answers, and ones that may implicate *an* ESE plot but which 
have no specific relevance to Lupin.

> Pippin:
> Why didn't James want Dumbledore to be his secret keeper?

Christina:

Because he, along with three others, fooled Dumbledore for years as 
teenaged boys.

> Pippin:
> Why couldn't JKR tell us why the diary plot would have made 
> present day Voldemort stronger?

Christina:

Horcruxes?  And how does this relate to Lupin?

> Pippin:
> Why is there an anvil-sized  hint that Lupin is an occlumens?

Christina:

Occlumency/Legilimency tends to reflect personality.  Lupin is a bit 
closed, and so it only logically follows that he would be talented 
at Occlumency.  Maybe his "furry little problem" pushed him to learn 
it.  In any case, a talent for Occlumency does not equal guilt.


> Pippin:
> Why does the  moon appear and disappear *before* Lupin transforms? 
> Why did JKR give an evasive answer when asked whether Lupin 
> transformed inside the shack? She's usually  willing to admit it 
> when she just flubbed up.

Christina:

You seem to really like this bit as evidence for ESE!Lupin.  Why?  
Being evil doesn't give Lupin control over when he transforms.  No 
werewolf has that.


> Pippin:
> How are Order members once again being picked off one by one?

Christina:

Spies aren't needed for Order members to die.  


> Pippin:
> The authors of the Talmud say that the true test of remorse is 
> when you face the same temptation and don't repeat your sin. That 
> sounds like a good test to me. So far, Lupin has failed.

Christina:

In your opinion.  I think Lupin has shown ample remorse.  Lupin 
doesn't exist in a bubble; take out your measuring stick and look at 
the other characters.  And again, a lack of remorse does not an evil 
person make.  If we are using meaningful remorse as an indicator of 
evil, than our number of villainous characters has just about 
tripled.  As you said yourself, werewolves are not divided into good 
people and Voldemort supporters.  There are those in between, like 
Lupin, who has made poor decisions in the past but who remain 
dedicated to Dumbledore.


Christina