Maligning Lupin

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 149963

> > Pippin:
> > As for why Lupin told him, their whole relationship was based on
> > shared secrets.
> 
> Christina:
> 
> Their childhood relationship, perhaps, but their adult 
> relationship?  No way. 

Pippin:
You're entitled to your opinion of course, but adult Sirius and Lupin
do seem to be sharing secrets. They give each other a look before
Sirius starts telling Harry about what Voldemort is after -- a look
that appears to tell us there's something just between the two of
them (and no, I don't think it's a ship. Sorry.)  And of course they're both
members of a secret organization and living in a secret hideout.

Christina:
 Lupin telling Sirius a "secret" to keep their 
> friendship going also doesn't make sense if you consider the fact 
> that Sirius obviously did not *know* it was a secret if he blurted 
> it out in a crowded room.  Defeats the purpose, really.

Pippin:
If Sirius was told that the purpose of the secrecy was to keep the DE's
from using  Harry to go after the prophecy,  he would think there
was no need for secrecy any more. 

> > Pippin:
> > In any case, Dumbledore hasn't been able to do much to provide the
> > werewolves with education and jobs. 
> 
> Christina:
> 
> And Voldemort has done more?
> 
Pippin:
Fenrir doesn't look sick or starving.


> > Pippin:
> > Cheerful and resigned to his lot is the Uncle Tom stereotype.
> > It's hollow and demeaning and I'll be surprised if JKR doesn't
> > point that out in the end.
> 
> Christina:
> 
> A stereotype that JKR has ample opportunity to explore with the 
> house elves, which parallels American slavery much better than 
> lycanthropy. 
<snip>
> What I meant was that Lupin doesn't have much passion.  He doesn't 
> have anger.  He doesn't make Sirius-type emotional declarations.  

Pippin:
Denying someone the full range of human emotion is what the
Uncle Tom stereotype is all about. It needn't apply just to American
slaves, but to any group whose "good" members are made to seem
too weak and passive to harbor anger against their oppressors.


Christina:
> Your theory also requires that Voldemort be making nice with the  
> werewolves in the first war.  Is there evidence that this was even 
> the case?  I've dug around a bit and haven't found anything.
> 

Pippin:
It's only suggestive, but Hermione does assume immediately that 
if Sirius and Lupin are working together, it's because Lupin the
werewolf is on Sirius's, ie Voldemort's side.


> 
> > Pippin:
> > ::shrug:: To paraphrase Arthur, when you're dealing with a witch
> > like Umbridge, sometimes you have to join forces with people you'd 
> > rather avoid.
> 
> 
> Christina:
> 
> I understand the concept of the lesser of two evils.  But I still 
> fail to see how *Voldemort* ends up being the lesser of two evils.  

Pippin:
I refer you to Lupin's speech in OOP where he explains why the
goblins are going to be tempted to join Voldemort. And yet the
goblins are materially better off than werewolves and far more
numerous and influential. 
> 
> Christina:
> 
> When was Lupin "naive enough not to believe what he'd heard about 
> Fenrir"?  Lupin says that he felt pity for the werewolf who bit him 
> as a child, but that was before he got information about Fenrir 
> Greyback.  There's no reason to believe that Lupin disbelieved 
> anything he had heard about Greyback.

Pippin:
He says he felt pity before he found out the identity of the werewolf
who bit him. He apparently assumed it wasn't Greyback, or
somone like him, which seems a bit naive to me. 
 
> > Pippin:
> > Why couldn't JKR tell us why the diary plot would have made 
> > present day Voldemort stronger?
> 
> Christina:
> 
> Horcruxes?  And how does this relate to Lupin?

Pippin:
Lucius Malfoy did not know the diary was a horcrux,
Voldemort did not authorize the diary plot,  yet
JKR's answer implies that someone did know what
the diary would do and planned to make Voldemort 
stronger. 

It doesn't have anything to do with Lupin
as yet, but like the question of who sent the Lestranges
after the Longbottoms, it implies that  someone
was very interested in bringing Voldemort back to power.
 
> > Pippin:
> > Why is there an anvil-sized  hint that Lupin is an occlumens?
> 
> Christina:
> 
> Occlumency/Legilimency tends to reflect personality.  Lupin is a bit 
> closed, and so it only logically follows that he would be talented 
> at Occlumency.  Maybe his "furry little problem" pushed him to learn 
> it.  In any case, a talent for Occlumency does not equal guilt.
> 
Pippin:
No, but any ESE! character would have to be an occlumens. One of the
reasons I don't think Peter could have been spying for a year is that he's 
obviously no good at it. 

> > Pippin:
> > Why does the  moon appear and disappear *before* Lupin transforms? 
> > Why did JKR give an evasive answer when asked whether Lupin 
> > transformed inside the shack? She's usually  willing to admit it 
> > when she just flubbed up.
> 
> Christina:
> 
> You seem to really like this bit as evidence for ESE!Lupin.  Why?  
> Being evil doesn't give Lupin control over when he transforms.  No 
> werewolf has that.
> 

Pippin:
Don't they?

Ostensibly, Lupin transformed by chance when exposed to the
rays of the moon which appeared suddenly from behind a cloud. Yet
common sense and the moon's previous appearance suggest that
his transformations occur at a predictable time during the moon
cycle. Fenrir's ability to position himself near potential victims
also argues that a werewolf can predict when he will transform.

You can certainly argue that even though Lupin should have known 
exactly when he would transform, he lost track of the time and was 
taken by surprise, inadvertently allowing Peter to escape.

But if he did know exactly when he would transform, then he could
also have positioned himself so that his transformation would
*allow* Peter to escape. 

> 
> > Pippin:
> > How are Order members once again being picked off one by one?
> 
> Christina:
> 
> Spies aren't needed for Order members to die.  

Pippin:
But Lupin says it will be different this time, and yet it isn't.
I wonder why.<g>

> Christina:
> 
> In your opinion.  I think Lupin has shown ample remorse.  Lupin 
> doesn't exist in a bubble; take out your measuring stick and look at 
> the other characters.  

Pippin:
Except for Hagrid's drinking, I can't think of another character
who explicitly said or showed guilt about something and then 
did it again. Please show me some canon. There are plenty of 
characters who do things they *ought* to feel guilty about, but
who else actually says they know they did wrong, but they 
overcame their guilty feelings and went right on doing it?

Pippin
noting that anyone who sticks to "official mysteries" --  things
Harry explicitly wonders about -- would never decode the Mirror
of Erised's  message