The Huge overreactions from a five minute time span.

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 150251

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <SNIP>
> > No, Snape wasn't entirely innocent.  But that doesn't mean that 
> > he deserved to be so humiliated, or that James, and his little 
> > friends too (yes I'm looking at you, Lupin!), were not behaving 
> > badly.

> >>Alla:
> And nowhere in my post I said that he deserved to be humiliated or 
> that James and Sirius were not behaving badly.
> <snip> 
> So, "he deserved to be humiliated " is an incorrect interpretation 
> of what I said.

Betsy Hp:
Oh, I wasn't commenting on any of your statements by this point.  
This is my own personal opinion, not an attempt to interpert any of 
your opinions.
 
> >>Betsy Hp:
> > But I *do* think the Gryffindors behaved badly here and that    
> > Draco and friends did *not* deserve to be physically attacked as 
> > they were.
> > <snip>
 
> >>Alla:
> Please answer me this question - do you think that Draco is a     
> victim in that scene...
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I do.  Draco, Crabbe and Goyle are physically attacked from several 
directions at once by five wizards, two of whom were a couple of 
years older than them.  It don't get much plainer than that.

> >>Alla:
> ...it is possible to say that Gryffindors overreacted ( I don't    
> think for a single second that they did - I don't see any other   
> way how Harry's friends could react after he had been through the 
> hell and here Draco shows up with his threats and mockery)...

Betsy Hp:
Yeah, that just doesn't work for me.  Draco was being unspeakably 
rude and unkind.  But if everyone was allowed to pound the rude and 
unkind into the ground we'd have sunk back into pure barbarism a 
long time ago.

The Gryffindors behaved like common thugs in this scene.  They may 
have felt justified.  Others may feel they were justified.  But the 
fact remains that they responded to words with fists.  That's the 
mark of an uncivilized man, and it's something I tend to think 
little of. (Poor Crabbe and Goyle hadn't even said anything.)

> >>Joe:
> Wasn't it Draco, Crabbe and Goyle that first attempted to use     
> overwhelming force as you call it on Harry?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
No. The Slytherins didn't even draw their wands.  There have been so 
many different occasions where Draco gets stomped by mindless hordes 
it get's difficult to tell them apart, I know <g> but this scene 
took place at the end of GoF and all Draco did was speak.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > I think it's safe to say the Snape was more than a match for     
> > either James or Sirius.
> > <snip>

> >>Joe:
> What exactly are you basing that on?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
The pensieve scene.  James goes after Snape with Sirius providing 
backup, and Sirius needs to step forward at one point to keep Snape 
on the ground.  I don't think it had to do with Snape being 
*stronger* than either James or Sirius; they all struck me as being 
well matched as far as basic skill level.  But Snape was (is?) 
*majorly* determined.  To borrow a motto, he fights until he can't.  
And I mean that quite literally.  I think Snape, even if victory 
seemed impossible, would struggle and struggle and struggle until he 
was literally, physically unable to struggle any more.  Which is why 
the fight escalated as it did.

> >>Joe:
> I would be willing to wager that at least part of the reason they 
> both disliked each other is that they were the two closest in     
> terms of magical power in their peer group. It would be hard for   
> two boys in such a situation not to have a fierce rivalry. Think   
> about it, two boys well matched in ability but from rival houses   
> and almost polar opposite personalities.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Hmmm, I see what you're saying here, but it doesn't ring quite true 
to me.  There's a bit of healthy competition included in your 
scenario, I think.  It's something more along the lines of Draco and 
Harry, where the two boys can pour their rivalry onto the quidditch 
pitch and possibly (if Harry were more inclined) into the classroom.

James vs. Snape just doesn't strike me as having even a smidgeon of 
that healthiness to it.  It brought out the very worst in James, I 
think, as we see in the pensieve.  And I suspect it also brought out 
the very worst in Snape.  Neither boy gained, in other words.

I know my comparison isn't perfect because there is a lot that's 
unhealthy about Harry vs. Draco.  But if politics were removed, at 
least with those two they're pushing each other on the quidditch 
pitch to fly better, faster, be more alert, etc.  And I think it 
gives them each an extra reason to help their respective houses do 
well in the house competition, which means doing well in class, etc.

I think maybe James and Snape were *too* different for their rivalry 
to have anything positive to it.  James was too well-loved and good-
looking and charming, and Snape was too awkward and uncared for and 
angry.

Yeah, I'm not sure this makes any sort of sense. I'm kind of riffing 
off a not quite fully formed thought.  But I'll leave it as is to 
see what happens. <g>

Betsy Hp