[HPforGrownups] Re: Sportsmanship in Harry Potter

[Karen]

No: HPFGUIDX 151828


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: sistermagpie 
  To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 9:37 AM
  Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Sportsmanship in Harry Potter

  It just seems like--and maybe I'm misreading it--but the tone in your 
  posts, the references to other thousands of threads etc., makes it 
  seem like you just really have a problem with the way some people talk 
  about the books, like some posters aren't showing proper respect to 
  the author or to the fictional characters.  

  kchuplis:
  It just gets to sounding from posts after a while that people aren't just discussing but actually complaining about Harry and how he behaves and how DD behaves and well, yeah, as though any of us who find JKR a tolerable writer are idiots. Is it perfect? No, but the sportsmanship angle kept being dragged back to "why should Harry get any breaks" and how he should "lose" and I just thought I'd point out that Harry loses in plenty of ways. 

  magpie:

  I like taking apart books. 
  Taking them apart, even when it means pointing out a flaw in them or 
  something that I didn't think was great at the time does not make me 
  like them less.  

  kchuplis:
  And I don't mind that, but there is also nothing wrong with me pointing out that maybe those aren't flaws. Maybe you perceive them as flaws, but I did not.

  magpie:
  To me, this is what appreciating a book is, and it's 
  part of the reason that "there are groups like this discussing her 
  books months and even years after they've come out and after a 
  bazillion rereads."  

  kchuplis:
  Agreed. I'm sorry if I ruffled your feathers by saying that.

  magpie:
  When I read or write a post dissecting the story 
  or pointing out a flaw I don't hear "JKR failed."  It's the way I've 
  pretty much always looked at stories--to the point where it's what I 
  do for a living, sitting sometimes on one side of the editorial desk, 
  sometimes the other. It's very difficult for me to look at the story a 
  different way.  Sometimes different fans' ways of appreciating  or 
  talking about the books annoy each other. 

  kchuplis:
  Like I said, there is nothing wrong with dissection and yet when I present ideas I have about what is considered "flawed" and show that I don't believe them to be unreasonable plot and character points, fictionally or even in relation to the real world, I feel like I am being taken to task by you and I feel like my opinions are not "real" because you bring up the fact that you are, apparently, an editor. So maybe I am misunderstanding that tone as well. E-communications are not always the best at conveying subtle ideas. I know I'm not a huge intellect, or a big regular here but I believe my opinion is as valid as yours as a reader. Please do not take me to task for having a differing opinion on what "flaws" are in HP. I was simply countering what I was reading in posts here.

  JKR uses very large and convoluted plot devices and has since SS/PS. We know that about her writing. I do not agree that awarding Harry points in the TWT for feeling an overwhelming compulsion to "save" is bad sportsmandship, I don't believe that all the 7th years wanting to participate in the TWT has any bearing on how dangerous it is or could be, I do believe that Harry, unlike the other participants, has good reason to believe that danger is quite possibly life threatening considering his situation and how he came to be in the tournament as well as with the past books "adventures", I'm not not even sure I agree that the judges (of course, other than Ludo, who we know by the end to be totally trying to "throw" the competition) are *wrong* to award Harry extra points since we have no idea how the judging is really done. I do think DD has a reason to try to get Harry "extras" when he can since it's pretty much DD's doing that Harry is who he is and how he is and DD knows it. Is that a flaw? Well, no, it actually fits very well with what we find out in OoTP.  I don't find that Harry always wins and never pays... Is this wrong of me to present those opinions? I think not. 

  From a writing side, I'm not a professional but GoF is hung on the plot framework of the TWT. That *is* the whole book. It is not a departure in style since every book previously is hung on convoluted and fantastical situations. That is something that is acceptable about her writing if you enjoy reading the books. Within those convoluted frameworks, she has to make the characters react and behave in a reasonable (for their character) manner. That is what (to me) is really important.  I think she does. But I'm just a reader, not a professional. At any rate, I made my points, I'm not going to bash them to death and I will now return to lurking until I see something that I feel like commenting on. At least this isn't a Snape thread :)

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