CHAPDISC HBP 15, The Unbreakable Vow

[zgirnius]

No: HPFGUIDX 152050

> Carol:
>
> CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, Chapter
> 15, The Unbreakable Vow.
<snip> 

zgirnius:
WOW! What a summary. 

I must add, Yahoomort appears to have eatn my first response. 
Aoologies if it shows up later...

> Discussion Questions:
> 
> 1) What do you think of Ron's public "snogging" sessions with 
Lavender
> and Hermione's reaction? What about Ron's and Hermione's behavior in
> Transfiguration? What does Harry (whose thoughts are paraphrased by
> the narrator) mean by "the depths to which girls would sink to get
> revenge"?

zgirnius:
I thought Ron and LavLav's antics were pretty much what I remember 
from my high-school days. Hermione's reaction was what I would have 
expected, since I think she is quite interested in Ron. I was amusesd 
by them in Transfiguration, though I felt sorry for Hermione, because 
I elt she got the worst of the exchange.

I think Harry's thought about the depths is that it is at this moment 
(when Hermione invited McLaggen) that he begins to fear she will tell 
from what she did to McLaggen during the tryout. He can't ask her 
then, because she leaves after setting Lavender and Parvati to 
gossiping about her and Cormac. (Hmm, her relationship with those 
girls seems civil, at least...)


> 2) Hermione says that love potions are not Dark or dangerous, but
> Harry, the intended recipient, disagrees. How "dark" is Romilda's 
plot
> to get Harry to take her to Slughorn's party by, erm, potioning him?
> And how responsible are the Twins, who made and sold the love 
potions,
> for the uses to which the potions are put?

zgirnius:
I don't like the plot, but feel I can't fairly judge it without 
knowing exaclty how the potion would act and how long it would last. 
(Ron's reaction was atypical because the potions were past their use-
by date). If it is a lot milder than what we saw and short lived, I 
would probably be OK with classing it as a practical joke of a 
particularly nasty sort. Though I do think the Twins need to consider 
a formulation which weakens as it ages rather than the opposite, for 
safety reasons!


> 3) Harry expresses real interest in the Prince's notes on 
Everlasting
> Elixirs and defends his book against both Hermione's aspersions and
> Madam Pince's grasping hands. Is he just using the Prince's notes to
> get marks he doesn't deserve, or is he really learning more from the
> Prince than he ever learned from the adult Snape or Slughorn? How
> might this new interest in Potions, if it lasts, play out in Book 7?

zgirnius:
I do think Harry is getting credit for Potions genius he does not 
possess using the notes, but he is also learning. However, I would 
not say he has developed an interest in potions. If he were at all 
interested, wouldn't he wonder why the Prince's instuctions work so 
much better? And we see in the antidotes lesson later on that he 
still has no clue about the theory of potions.

I think in Book 7 this interest may just play pout in Harry 
retrieving ghe book to get more information. The very specific way he 
hid it makes me suspect we will be seeing it again.

> 5) Just for fun, why might Harry think that Filch and Pince are in

zgirnius:
They are in love becaus they are kindred spirits, of course...both 
love ot pick on the students! And maybe Harry is right-we see the 
pair together at the funeral, do we not? (Or is that Rowling having 
some fun?)


> 6) Why do you think that Harry invited Luna to Slughorn's party? 
What
> does his doing so tell us about him, compared to or contrasted with
> Hermione's inviting Cormac McLaggen? Do you agree with Harry that
> Hermione got what she deserved when Cormac ambushed her under the
> mistletoe? Why or why not?

zgirnius:
Harry invited Luna when she revealed to Harry that she was feeling 
lonely. (It also solved his Romilda problem). This shows to me that 
he has a good heart.

Hermione's motives in inviting Cormac wree (as she herself admits) 
totally different. I think this only means that Hermione is really 
upset about Ron, though.

Despire my sympathy for her, though, I agree with Harry she deserved 
Cormac the Devil's Snare. I do not doubt that, had she spent any time 
getting to know Mr. McLaggen befoer inviting him on a date, she would 
have known what to expect. Also, the 'ambush', whatever form it took, 
was clearly something Hermione could handle, and did not find too 
distressing.

 
> 7) What do you make of Luna's conversation with Trelawney? What
> insights into Luna does this chapter provide, or is she strictly 
comic
> relief? And why would Slughorn invite Trelawney, of all people, 
along
> with his Slug Club, his celebrity guests, and his former star pupil,
> Severus Snape? Just for fun, why do you think JKR included the 
Vampire
> Sanguini as a party guest?

zgirnius:
Luna is always comic relief! Though, Trelawney knows her and has 
missed having her in class. Is she a star Divination student? It fits 
her personality, somehow. She is far more open to the (whatever it 
was Trelawney claimed Hermione was closed to).

I think Sybill may have worthwhile family connections, since her 
Seerhood is a little-known fact. 

I think Sanguini was an homage to the Snape is a vampire theorists 
by  Rowling, though he was also an excuse for the wonderful Mr. 
Worple and Luna's remarks about Scrimgeour, either of which alone 
would have been enough to justify his presence, in my eyes.


> 7) Why does Snape react as he does to Slughorn's statement that 
Harry
> is a "natural" at Potions? Are his suspicions aroused at this point?
> Do you detect any genuine affection on Slughorn's part for his
> brilliant former student, or is it all jovial bluster and too much
> mead? Did you feel any sympathy for Snape during this conversation?
> Why or why not?

zgirnius:
Yes, I think Snape's suspicions are aroused. I was very amused by his 
reaction. He has a very dry sense of humor that I love.

I found Sluggie rather insincere-seeming here, though I am really not 
sure what to make of him. He did seem genuinely affected in his 
comment when he learned Snape had killed Dumbledore. 

I did not feel any sympathy for Snape in this scene. He didn;t need 
any, IMO. While this sort of party is clearly not his milieu, he can 
clearly handle himself (and even get a few digs in at Harry in the 
process.) 

However, Slughorn as Head of House and Potions teacher in Snape's 
schooldays in general does make me feel sorry for schoolboy Snape. 
Was he even in the Slug Club? Or did his looks and lack of social 
graces cause him to be overlooked in favor of a similarly talented, 
but much better looking and social student in his year?

> 8) Why does Draco claim to be "gate-crashing" when he was actually
> upstairs? Why does he look angry when Slughorn allows him to stay? 
The
> narrator, voicing Harry's perspective, asks: "Why was Snape looking 
at
> Malfoy as though both angry and . . . was it possible? . . . a 
little
> afraid?" How would you answer the narrator's (or Harry's) questions?

zgirnius:
I though Draco was taking the opportunity of Harry and Snape both 
being busy at a party to work on his Vanishing Cabinet problem. Gate-
crashing was a convenient excuse, but his lack of anthusiasm made it 
pretty clear this was a lie. He proibably wanted to get back to his 
work.

Snape was probably looking scared becase he does not know what Draco 
will try next. His previous try nearly killed Katie Bell...

> 10) Clearly, Crabbe and Goyle are not taking NEWT DADA with Harry 
and
> Draco. Might they be repeating fifth-year DADA (rather than taking 
no
> DADA class at all), and could they, theoretically, repeat their DADA
> OWLs as Snape implies? What, if anything, does this detail tell us
> about Snape's attitude toward DADA? Is he really concerned about
> Crabbe's and Goyle's DADA OWLs? What is he trying to accomplish by
> putting them in detention?

zgirnius:
Putting them indetention could certainly have ben useful by taking 
Darco's support system away from him so he would be forced to turn to 
Snape foir help. It didn't work, though. This is not the first time 
SNpae has used the excuse of remedial classes to hide other 
activities (Occlumency). Which does suggest he may occcasionally do 
remedial classes/detentions for purely teacherly.Head of ouse sorts 
of reasons.

> 11) What do you make of Draco's contempt for DADA, his attempt at
> Occlumency, his reaction to Snape's Unbreakable Vow, and his
> accusation that Snape is trying to steal his glory? How successful 
are
> his attempts to evade Snape's questions? What, if anything, does 
Snape
> learn from Draco's answers?

zgirnius:
I think Bella may have had some influence on Draco's thinking over 
the summer. They must have spent a good deal of time together while 
Draco learned Occlumency (I even suspect there must be secret rooms 
in Malfoy Manor the Ministry has never found...she may be living with 
her sister). 

I think the one thing Snape learned from his answers is that he has 
some sort of outsiude help (*better than Crabbe and Goyle*).

> 12) Snape changes tactics several times during the interview. How 
and
> why? Are these changes an indication of weakness or strength? Do any
> of his statements or questions seem deliberately ambiguous or
> misleading? How does this conversation tie in with, or affect your
> understanding of, "Spinner's End"?

zgirnius:
I found the exchnage very Spinner's End like in style. Snape again 
uses the method of saying true things which can be interpreted 
differently depending on one's expectations. The classic of the genre 
from this scene, to me, was the line "Where do you think I would have 
been all these years, if I had not known how to act?" True, no matter 
whose side the man in on!


> 13) Snape's expression is twice referred to as "unfathomable" or
> "inscrutable." What does this description suggest to you? Why does
> Snape return to the party rather than following Draco?
> 
zgirnius:
This is the same description Snape has as he decidec to take the Vow 
in Spinner's End. I think it is Snape in high gear as a spy-his mind 
calculating away madly while his external appearance reveals nothing.


> 14) How did this chapter affect your views on where Snape's 
loyalties
> lie? Why do you think the chapter is titled "The Unbreakable Vow" 
when
> the vow is barely mentioned?

zgirnius:
Spinner's End tipped me off the fence and into the DDM! camp. This 
chapter confirmed my view. Particularly Snape's little "Freudian 
slip" in his talk with Draco:
"What thoughts are you trying to conceal from your master, Draco?"
(YOUR master? not OUR?)