Bad Love in HBP (was:Re: Calling Tonks Nymphadora...)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 152180

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > I've lately come to the conclusion that HBP is all about "bad
> > love".  
> > <snip>

> >>Alla:
> I disagree partially. Sure we had seen plenty of bad love in HBP,
> but what we also saw IMO are conflicts between those who are truly
> in love and that is why I disagree that this is not love at all.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Oh, I totally agree.  The bad love isn't really love at all.  I'm 
probably not being very clear.  (This is a newish idea, so I'm 
having problems expressing it. <g>)

What HBP gives us is the "dark" side of love, if you will.  Merope's 
love for Tom gets twisted until she's willing to totally eclipse his 
will with hers.  I think she probably started out with very innocent 
feelings of love, but in her desperation and pain, that love became 
something dark.

Tonks loves Remus, yes, but in the course of that love she gets so 
wrapped up in his refusal she looses her powers and is weakened.  
Just as Ron and Hermione do love each other, but for some reason 
(miscommunication, what have you) their love gets twisted so that 
they're deliberatly looking for ways to hurt each other.

You could even say that the sibling love between Ron and Ginny gets 
twisted when Ginny uses the closeness between two siblings to 
humiliate and hurt Ron.

I'm not saying *every* example of love in HBP was one of bad love.  
Or that all of the various loves expressed are, at their heart, 
bad.  For example, I do think Ron and Hermione will work their 
differences out and start expressing a good love that strengthens 
them both, rather than tearing each other down.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > But if this is the case, I think book 7 will be all about "good
> > love" or real, actual love. 
> > <snip>
 
> Alla: 
> But your examples are only sacrificial love. While I think it would
> be given a great deal of importance, I don't think that this is
> would be shown as the only kind of good love and relationships will
> thrive IMO.

Betsy Hp:
I agree that good relationships will thrive.  But I also think good 
relationships have sacrificial love at their core.  As an example, 
Hermione will let go and let Ron be Ron.  Their relationship will 
improve, because Hermione sacrifices her instinct to control those 
around her.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > I have a feeling that once we're done with book 7 it will be
> > fairly obvious that the "love" expressed in HBP wasn't real love 
> > all. (Not that the couples set up in HBP won't be couples in    
> > book 7, but that they'll be healthier relationships, if that    
> > makes sense.)

> >>Alla:
> I guess I am confused now, because if you are not saying that all
> couples of HBP would disappear, but their relationships will emerge
> as healthier then I agree with you. BUT then why do you say that   
> HBP love was not a real love at all? Isn't it better defined as   
> first stage of real love, full of conflicts and misunderstandings, 
> but the one who will survive eventually?

Betsy Hp:
I guess because Ron mocking Hermione in class so that she leaves in 
tears doesn't strike me as love.  It's not a loving act, IMO.  *We* 
know that he's only doing it because underneath it all he cares 
deeply for Hermione and is hurt by her actions towards him.  But 
it's not love.  It can be a necessary step on the road to love, but 
it isn't the real thing.  And this particular book if filled with 
those two hurting each other.  Compared with OotP where Hermione and 
Ron made a pretty good team.

Once Ron and Hermione finally get over their issues I'm betting that 
they'll express a strong and healthy love, as we gets hints of at 
Dumbledore's funeral.  But the games they were playing throughout 
HBP, were not real or good expressions of love.

Surprisingly enough, I think Ginny and Harry got into the good sort 
of love a bit early.  (I'm away from my books right now, so I can't 
confirm this.)  IIRC, once they finally get together it's pretty 
peaceful for both of them.

However, Harry had to fight against some instincts towards bad love 
when he first realized that Ginny was the "one".  He grabbled with 
the idea of throwing Dean off the team, for example.  Which, while 
inspired by his love for Ginny would have been a bad way of 
expressing it.

HBP does end with some hints of good love in the air. (Especially at 
Dumbledore's funeral.)  But I think the 7th book will be filled with 
examples.  Just as HBP practically floated in love potions (bad 
love).  It's a theory, anyway. <g>

Betsy Hp