Amortentia and re The morality of love potions/Merope and Tom Sr.

[juli17ptf]

No: HPFGUIDX 152312


>
>  > Carol responds:
> > First, I'm very curious as to whether any *male* list members 
would
> > classify what happened to Tom Sr. as "rape." IMO, it's more like
> > seduction and entrapment into marriage (admittedly not 
justifiable 
> or
> > moral actions), and it's his inability to marry the woman of his
> > choice that upsets him and causes him to be a recluse in his 
> parents'
> > house.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Why is that? He was forced to sleep with somebody who he would not 
> sleep with while in his right mind. How is it not rape? Would you 
say 
> that if woman would drank a day rape drug in her drink and forced 
to 
> sleep with someone, it is not rape too?

Julie:
I don't think Tom's situation is analagous to rape because no 
physical incapacity or coercion was involved, rather his emotions 
were played with. It is more analagous to a man telling a woman he 
loves her and wants to marry her just to get sex. That sexual 
relationship is based on deceit, just as Tom and Merope's sexual 
relationship is based on deceit, on the effect of the love potion 
making Tom believe he cared for her. Just as a woman would be 
justifiably angry at being tricked into believing a man loved her, I 
think Tom is justifiably angry at being tricked into believing he 
loved Merope. But I still don't see it as rape. 

> 
> Carol:
> <SNIP>
> > If Tom were merely the victim of unwanted sex with a girl he was
> > repulsed by, he could have gotten over it just as men get over 
> having
> > sex with girls they don't know after having had too many drinks, 
or
> > encounters with prostitutes that they later regret but don't spend
> > their lives reliving and repenting. Men don't make a big deal 
about
> > losing their virginity or undesirable sex partners unless there 
are
> > other consequences like venereal disease or the woman's pregnancy.
> > IMO, it wasn't the sex so much as the marriage that in his view 
> ruined
> > his life.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> What are you basing your conclusions on? He was violated on the 
daily 
> basis for months and you are saying that he should have gotten over 
> it? Just because he is a man? Would you expect from woman to just 
get 
> over unwanted sex too?

Julie:
Again he wasn't violated, IMO, he was tricked, into believing he 
loved her because she was gorgeous and desirable in his eyes, when 
she really wasn't once he saw how she really looked. 
 
> 
> Carol:
>  Once he got over the initial outrage and humiliation,
> > he should have seen that she, a lifelong victim of abuse, only 
> wanted
> > to be loved, that she was sorry for her mistake, that as a fellow
> > human being, she deserved to be treated with compassion even 
though
> > she had hurt him. Does being sorry and trying to make amends for a
> > mistake count for nothing?
> <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Mistake? Trap another human being in her bed is a mistake? In my 
book 
> it is a crime, a horrendous crime.
> And no, being sorry for rape does not count for much, although I 
> don't remember her saying that she is sorry either.

Julie:
He was tricked into her bed, as a woman can often be tricked into a 
man's bed by lies and manipulation. It's dishonest, deceitful, 
perhaps criminal in some sense, but it's not rape. 

<snip>
> 
> Carol:
> > Merope, after having sinned or erred or whatever you want to call 
> it,
> > repented. She did what was right, not what was easy, by telling 
Tom
> > the truth. 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Or as Magpie said she was still doing after her own means, because 
> she did not like drugged husband anymore.

Julie:
Er, huh? If you mean she hoped he would love her as she was, now that 
he'd gotten to know her, I agree that she probably held that hope. 
She still could have kept him under the love potion forever, but she 
chose not to, and the only reason for that is because she knew it was 
wrong. So she took the risk and did the right thing. Which doesn't 
excuse doing the wrong thing first, but it does count for something, 
IMO. 

> Carol:
> He, however, did not forgive her or relent in his cold,
> > cruel punishment of her transgression. He blamed her, abandoned 
her
> > and their child, and went off to live with his parents, not 
> providing
> > her with a penny. He did what was easy, not what was right.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I cannot imagine a worst punishment for rape victim that staring in 
> the face of the child conceived under such circumstances

Julie:
It wasn't rape (sorry for the broken record approach, but it wasn't). 
However, the child was conceived under false pretenses, again, just 
as a woman could get pregnant assuming a man loved her, only to have 
that man reveal he never loved her and just used her for sex. 

BTW, Tom doesn't have to stare the child in the face. He can simply 
help provide for its care, or help arrange an adoption if Merope is 
unable or unwilling to care for the child. 

> 
> Carol:
> <SNIP>
>  He had a moral obligation to care for his
> > child regardless of the circumstances of its conception. And his
> > injuries did not justify deliberate cruelty and neglect toward 
> someone
> > who had asked his forgiveness.
> 
> Alla:
> Not in my book. In my book he suffered enough without being imposed 
> on with his child and I don't remember anywhere in canon Merope 
> asking him for forgiveness, by the way. She stopped feeding him the 
> potion that does NOT equal forgiveness in my book. That is stopping 
> committing the crime, that is all.
> As I said I think it is great if he was able to care for his child, 
> because nobody could argue that the baby is innocent indeed, but to 
> IMPOSE on him?
> 
> Nope, I very strongly disagree.

Julie:

We have *no* clue what conversation transpired between Merope and 
Tom, though it's a good bet she did beg for forgiveness, as she 
certainly wanted him to stay with her. Granting forgiveness is of 
course his choice, and clearly he didn't do so since he left and had 
no further contact with her or the child that we know of. 

An unwanted conception is also not the child's fault. who is 
completely innocent, as you say. And doing the right thing over the 
easy thing is *almost always* an imposition of some sort, or the 
choice wouldn't have to be made, would it? Tom perhaps had no legal 
responsibility to do so, given that the marriage and the child's 
conception were founded on deceit, but morally it would have been the 
right thing to do. And doing the right thing over the easy thi
>  
> > Carol, who can understand Tom Sr.'s conduct but cannot condone it 
> and
> > does not think that any mistake should be punished with misery 
like
> > Merope's
> 
> Alla:
> 
> So, if the places were switched and Merope was young and rich and 
> beautiful and Tom Riddle was ugly wizard who slipped her love 
potion, 
> would you still think that Merope had any kind of obligation to 
care 
> for the child, or is it only because poor Tom is a man and for some 
> reason should just get over the rape?

Julie:
I think she would have a moral obligation to make sure the child was 
cared for. She could choose to ignore that obligation, and society 
might not even condemn her for it, but that doesn't make it morally 
right. 

Alla: 
> You know, I have to forcibly remind myself that Merope was a victim 
> of abuse and needs to be pitied at least for that, otherwise I 
would 
> hate her a great deal. But poor Tom had NOTHING to do with her 
abuse, 
> he wanted to live HIS life and she took this possibility away from 
> him.

Julie:
Hmm. I don't have to forcibly remind myself that Merope was the 
victim of abuse, because the moment I read about her horrible, 
loveless life I couldn't feel anything but sympathy for her. Even 
after she used the love potion I felt sympathy for her, because she 
was driven by desperation and a desire for love and acceptance that 
should have been her birthright as a human but which she'd never 
known. Yes, she was wrong to do it, but her intent wasn't to harm, so 
I can both condemn her action while not fully condemning her. But 
that's just me :-)

Julie, who thinks Merope may have asked for the misery she received 
from Tom, but only because she had no idea how to ask for something 
she so desired but had never experienced an ounce of throughout her 
life--love.