Amortentia and re The morality of love potions/Merope and Tom Sr.

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 152317

Julie:
I don't think Tom's situation is analagous to rape because no
physical incapacity or coercion was involved, rather his emotions
were played with. It is more analagous to a man telling a woman he
loves her and wants to marry her just to get sex. That sexual
relationship is based on deceit, just as Tom and Merope's sexual
relationship is based on deceit, on the effect of the love potion
making Tom believe he cared for her. Just as a woman would be
justifiably angry at being tricked into believing a man loved her, I
think Tom is justifiably angry at being tricked into believing he
loved Merope. But I still don't see it as rape.

Alla:

I disagree. In the situation you describe man or woman can still 
CHOOSE whether to believe those lies or trickery or not. Granted, the 
liar can play their part very well, but IMO there is still a choice. 
The person under the influence of love potion has absolutely no 
choice but to feel "affection" for the person who drugs the other 
person, no?

Just as in rape there is absolutely no choice for other person 
involved. I don't remember canon supporting the argument that love 
potions can be overcomed somehow?


Julie:
Again he wasn't violated, IMO, he was tricked, into believing he
loved her because she was gorgeous and desirable in his eyes, when
she really wasn't once he saw how she really looked.

Alla:

But what's the difference here? Is there any? He had no choice but to 
have sex with her the way I see it.

>
Julie:
<SNIP>
BTW, Tom doesn't have to stare the child in the face. He can simply
help provide for its care, or help arrange an adoption if Merope is
unable or unwilling to care for the child.

Alla:

Sure, he can and I would think that he is a great man if he did so, 
it would be very admirable, but since he did not do so, I think that 
he is a hurt man, broken even, since if I may say again he almost 
never left the house after he came back. That is to me the behaviour 
of the trauma victim.

Julie:

We have *no* clue what conversation transpired between Merope and
Tom, though it's a good bet she did beg for forgiveness, as she
certainly wanted him to stay with her. Granting forgiveness is of
course his choice, and clearly he didn't do so since he left and had
no further contact with her or the child that we know of.

Alla:

Of course. It is possible, I was just saying that there is no such 
conversation described.
And if I may say again, we don't even know if Tom knew of Merope's 
pregnancy. Not that I would think worse of him, if he did knew, but 
who knows, maybe indeed he was such a good man that he would have 
cared for the child which Merope beared.


> Alla:
>
> So, if the places were switched and Merope was young and rich and
> beautiful and Tom Riddle was ugly wizard who slipped her love
potion,
> would you still think that Merope had any kind of obligation to
care
> for the child, or is it only because poor Tom is a man and for some
> reason should just get over the rape?

Julie:
I think she would have a moral obligation to make sure the child was
cared for. She could choose to ignore that obligation, and society
might not even condemn her for it, but that doesn't make it morally
right.

Alla:

Okay, fair enough. This is at least consistent position. I don't 
agree with it at all, but I understand.

Julie:
Hmm. I don't have to forcibly remind myself that Merope was the
victim of abuse, because the moment I read about her horrible,
loveless life I couldn't feel anything but sympathy for her. Even
after she used the love potion I felt sympathy for her, because she
was driven by desperation and a desire for love and acceptance that
should have been her birthright as a human but which she'd never
known. Yes, she was wrong to do it, but her intent wasn't to harm, so
I can both condemn her action while not fully condemning her. But
that's just me :-)

Gerry:
<SNIP of the whole post>
I totally agree with that, but I don't agree it is Tom who should give
the compassion, the forgiveness or the love.

Alla:
I really like what Gerry said.
What I meant is that I have to remind myself that she is a victim of 
abuse after I read what she did to Tom. Since I said that I see it as 
rape, I can see her upbringing as explanation, but not as 
justification of what she did at all.

She loses all my empathy when I read those scenes, that is why I have 
to remind myself that she suffered at home in order to not have 
completely one sided picture of her in my head, because if I would 
have only read about her and Tom without her upbringing, well then I 
would see her close to monster, frankly.

And I don't see how her intent was not to harm if she knew that Tom 
loved another woman.

JMO,

Alla