Amortentia and re The morality of love potions/Merope and Tom Sr.

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 152425

> Pippin:
> 
> Could Ron tell that he was over-excited and might act foolishly?
>  There is canon for that. When Ron gets to Slughorn's office, he 
trips 
> over something and worries that Romilda might see it, and when 
Sluggie 
> suggests that he take something to calm himself down, Ron eagerly 
says,
> "Brilliant." I'm no expert, but I don't think excitement makes a 
person legally
> incompetent  to marry-- and while the love potion has made  Ron 
eager 
> to share his feelings, he's still concerned about looking like a 
prat. 
>

Alla:

I will try again. Under the influence of the Love potion Ron thinks 
that he is in love with Romilda. I don't see anywhere in canon that 
Ron knows that he is NOT in love. He does not remember that he wants 
nothing to do with Romilda without potion and him concerning about 
looking like a prat as nothing to do with the fact that he had been 
made to FEEL something he really does not. For some reason you think 
that Ron is able to resist those feelings, to figure out that they 
are not real, is that correct? Where do you see it in canon?

Same with Tom Sr. Putting aside the fact that I cannot grasp how 
drugged person should be able to make the rational decision, where do 
you see the indication that Tom KNEW or at least SHOULD have been 
able to know that his feelings for Merope are not real. I think you 
are stretching the point a lot, personally.


Pippin:
> Ron had been tricked into thinking that Romilda attracted
> him "Have you seen her hair, it's all black and shiny and 
silky...and her
> eyes? Her big dark eyes? And her--" and that this attraction was 
love.
> Whatever tradition may say,  Rowling's love potions do work by 
> making the intended seem attractive.
> 
> But that could happen by Muggle means, all legal, all deceptive but 
> allowable under the "all's fair in love and war" maxim. Being 
deceived 
> about your partner's attractiveness or the depth of your feelings is
> not "substantial deception." 

Alla:

Um, Ron had been made to FEEL what he does not really feel. I am 
really not sure how this is fair in any way, shape or form, but to 
each their own of course.


Pippin:
<SNIP>
> Adults (and Ron has just reached adulthood) are supposed to know
> that their  hearts and their eyes could be wrong about things like 
that. 

Alla:

Sure, when they are not drugged , they are supposed to know. I don't 
see anywhere in the books that love potion let you make that kind of 
the determination.

Pippin:
<SNIP>
> There is no canon that love potions make one forget that, any more 
> than such Muggle charms as smooth manners and high status, or 
> chocolates, liquor and perfume, all of which work on the brain. 
> Tom Jr needed no more than the first two to "hoodwink" Ginny into 
> pouring out her soul. 

Alla:

YES, there is canon. Tom forgot the woman he loved under the 
influence of the potion. You add additional step to the chain of 
events. Tom was drugged , that is why he forgot. For some reason you 
argue if I understand you correctly that Tom was vain and arrogant, 
that is why he forgot. I find  no support for this additional step in 
canon. To me it is very simple – he was given a drug, which made him 
forget, after the influence of the drug ended, he remembered.

Pippin:
<SNIP>
> That, IMO, is  JKR's  recipe for distinguishing between love
> and infatuation. If Tom had been the sort of person, like Ron,
> who was willing to wait to be  sure he wasn't making a fool
> of himself, would he have run off with Merope immediately?
> I think not. But he was in a hurry to satisfy himself -- and too
> arrogant to think his feelings might deceive him.  And then,
> being in a hurry to escape from his situation, he deserted her,
> her unborn child, and the legal obligation he had taken on in his
> haste to satisfy  himself. 

Alla:

Willing to wait? But where is the proof that  the potion was letting 
him wait? The dose could have been so strong that he was forced to 
run with Merope and marry her that very moment.

Pippin:
<SNIP>
> I don't blame him for being horrified and repulsed --but those
> things do not release him from the duties he freely, if mistakenly,
> hastily and unwisely, undertook.

Alla:

Without Merope giving him potion the thought of taking those duties 
on in the first place would have never entered his mind.

JMO,

Alla