Snape, Apologies, and Redemption--Lupin vs. DD

[leslie41]

No: HPFGUIDX 152452

> > Leslie41:
> > That's fallacious reasoning.  It's a non-sequitur.  It doesn't 
> > necessarily follow that if these issues aren't dealt with that DD 
> > finds the abuse of children "good and noble" and "worthwhile."
> 

> Lupinlore:
> Of course it does, IMO.  We are not dealing with just anyone here, 
> after all (although just anyone would have a lot to answer for).  
> Rather, we are dealing with "the epitome of goodness," the "very 
> wise man" who "knows everything that goes on at Hogwarts."  Pretty 
> damning, if you ask me.

Leslie41:

Again, fallacious reasoning.  Just because someone does not put a 
stop to something, that doesn't mean they APPROVE of it.    
 
> > Leslie41: 
> > But of course it is.  Especially since what the Marauders do to 
> > Snape, or attempt to do, is far, far, worse than ANYTHING that 
> > Snape has ever done to his students.  

> Lupinlore: 
> I guess my answer to that would be, NOPE, what was done to Snape 
> was most certainly NOT, IMO, in the same league with what he does 
> to his students.  The difference in position of authority between 
> Snape and Harry, IMO, magnifies Snape's actions far out of the 
> league of whatever was done to teenage Snape by the Marauders.

Leslie41:

And I would say when we judge his teaching style, we should consider 
the fact that Snape's students learn an awful lot as a result of his 
nastiness.

As to Black, again I remind you, what Black was guilty of was 
ATTEMPTED MURDER.  Which he never repented of, ever.  So I would say 
you're right.  It is not at all "in the same league" with what Snape 
does to his students.  It's far, far, far worse. 
 
> > Leslie41: 
> > Snape was 15 once, too.  He was humiliated, and then nearly 
> > killed, and neither Lupin nor DD held Sirius and James 
> > accountable. (Certainly Black wasn't expelled, which one might 
> > expect when one student attempts to murder another.)  Black even 
> > became a valued member of the Order.  

> Lupinlore: 
> I think this is absolutely and totally irrelevent.  Nothing that 
> was done to Snape, by omission or commission, in any way excuses 
> his abuse of Harry and Neville or IN ANY WAY releases him from 
> punishment for that reprehensible abuse.  Nor does it in any way 
> lessen Dumbledore's fault in allowing the abuse to take place and 
> continue.

Leslie41:

Ah,  but that's not really my point.  My point is that you wish to 
heap blame only on Snape and Dumbledore as a result of the "abuse" of 
Snape's students, yet when Snape is the target of the torment, you 
defend his abusers and seem to hold their friends blameless.  If your 
name is any indication you admire Lupin.  Yet Lupin never makes his 
friends accountable for what they have done, which is torment and 
almost kill a fellow student.  Lupin even diminishes the seriousness 
of Black's actions by calling it a "prank".  What about 
Lupin's "fault in allowing the abuse to take place and continue"?  
Does he bear no responsibility at all?  Does he not have a duty to 
speak up and tell his friends that they are being cruel?  And 
murderous?  Lily certainly speaks up, and we admire her for doing 
so.  Lupin holds his tongue. 

I'm just playing devil's advocate here.  I know why Lupin didn't 
speak out, and I understand and am sympathetic with his reasons.  
Personally, I give all of them a lot of slack, Snape, Black, etc.  

But you doggedly focus on Snape's perceived abuses to the exclusion 
of the abuse done to him, and to me this seems inconsistent, I think, 
to the point of hypocrisy.