Abuse, etc., was Snape, Apologies, and and Redemption--Lupin vs. DD

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 152569

> Leslie41:
<SNIP>
> I also had a teacher in jr. high that I realize in retrospect was 
> quite like Snape.  And a friend who was very Neville-ish, in 
> personality if not in ability (she was a high achiever).  I hated 
> this teacher, and so did she.  He wasn't a particularly good 
teacher 
> either.  She felt terrorized by his imposing personality, and it 
> made her physically ill.  I just thought he was a complete jerk, 
but 
> he didn't scare me at all.  If you ask her whether or not she 
> felt "abused," she might say yes.  If you ask me, I would say 
> absolutely not.

Alla:

But don't you think that in this situation your opinion is not 
relevant in determining whether that teacher was abusive towards 
your friend? IMO if she felt abused, THAT is what counts, especially 
if you yourself said that this teacher made her physically ill that 
even though this teacher was not scaring you, you think he was a 
jerk. My guess is that you could handle his abuse, not let it get to 
you, etc and your friend could not, so IMO that does not make what 
he did to be less abusive.

To go back to canon, I frankly do not see how Snape's crap he dishes 
upon Harry and Neville cannot be considered abuse.

And especially after OOP,where what Snape did to Harry for five 
years ended up in Harry not only unable to trust Snape AT ALL, but 
forgetting that Snape IS the order member who can help them somehow, 
I just don't see how that is not the most obvious consequence of 
abusive teacher dishing the fruits of his labor where from his very 
first lesson he made Harry distrust, fear and hate him.

Leslie_41:
> Truthfully, I think it diminishes the authentic cases of the abuse 
> of children to classify what Snape does as "abuse".
<SNIP>

Alla:

And I think that the fact that there are many cases of more serious 
abuse than what Snape does, does not make what he does any less 
abusive.

I look at Snape's actions as Snape's actions only. I do not compare 
them to Umbridge, or anybody else. Because while Umbridge's abuse is 
unquestionably more serious, in itself Snape actions IMO are serious 
enough to warrant calling them abuse too.


Leslie_41:
 I was a child 
> once, I have a child, and I'm an educator myself, so I kind of 
> understand all sides of the issue, I think.  My opinion is also 
> colored by my belief that the purpose of education, especially 
after 
> a student becomes an adolescent, is not necessarily to provide the 
> student with self-esteem, but rather with knowledge and 
discernment 
> in hopes that they will develop a critical mind, and the ability 
to 
> reason soundly and logically.  The end result is, hopefully, a 
> productive and informed human being who is capable of contributing 
> something to society.

Alla:

I was studying to be an educator, I have an educator in the family, 
I only worked as an educator during my student internships, but I 
think I have enough exposure to talk about it.

I disagree that to give student self-esteem is not one of the 
purposes of education, BUT in any event abusive teacher IMO takes 
AWAY student's self-esteem, not just not provides student with such.

Surely you agree that TAKING AWAY student's self-esteem is NOT a 
purpose of education?

JMO,

Alla