Snape, Apologies, and Redemption--Lupin vs. DD

[leslie41]

No: HPFGUIDX 152588

 
> > Leslie_41:
> > But there is a lot of wrong to be handed out on both 
> > sides.  Harry is not an innocent with regard to his relationship 
> > with Snape.

 
> Alla:
<biggie snip>
> I would really like to know what SINS Harry committed against 
> Snape when he arrives at Hogwarts, besides looking like James of 
> course.

Leslie41:
Oh my.  None and none.  Harry commits no "sin" against Snape 
whatsoever, I think (at least in my interpretation of the word), 
throughout the entirety of the series.  I fully understand why Harry 
reacts the way he does to Snape, and agree that it's something that 
Snape contributes to, and even initiates.  
 
> As far as I am concerned Snape is totally owns the problem between 
> them. I am not going to blame an eleven year old for hate of the 
> teacher, who in my book treated him like an enemy from the moment 
> they met.

Leslie41:
Well, I am not considering Harry merely as an eleven-year-old, any 
more than I consider Snape as merely a man of thirty-six.  By the 
end of HBP Harry is nearly seventeen, which is an adult in the 
wizarding world.  I have much less pity for him regarding Snape as 
Harry grows older, because I think Harry should know better.  Snape 
is emotionally crippled and Harry is not, something that Harry knows 
well.  But the fact that Snape is an emotional cripple doesn't stop 
him from going to extraordinary lengths to aid Harry where it 
*really* counts.    

> Did Harry do some things which he would be better not doing to 
> Snape later on? Like Pensieve for example? Sure, he did. He is not 
> perfect. But Snape started it and that is enough for me. 

Leslie41:
Well, that's not enough for me.  That's a child's argument. And 
Harry, by Prisoner of Azkaban at least, is no longer a child.  

> Alla:
> Harry IMO does not have a prejudice against Snape. He has a very 
> well deserved, justified hate of Snape.

Leslie41:
By HBP, it's prejudice. Harry tells Hermione that he thinks Snape 
loves the dark arts because of the very eloquent speech Snape has 
given about them at the beginning of class.  Hermione responds 
that "I thought he sounded a bit like you...that it really comes 
down to being brave and quick thinking."

Of course, what Snape is attempting to teach Harry in this lesson is 
quick thinking.  Snape tries to hurl a non-verbal curse at Harry 
because Ron is incapable of it.  Harry responds with a verbal shield 
charm, and then gets cheeky.  

Harry also completely misinterprets, in retrospect, the occlumency 
lessons, by calling himself Snape's "guinea pig."  Snape no more 
wanted to give Harry private occlumency lessons than Harry wanted to 
take them from him.  He did it because Dumbledore wanted him to, 
because it was required of him.   
 
> > Leslie41:
> > Remember that Black's guilty of attempted murder.  That's 
> > certainly a far more egregious sin than anything I can think of 
> > regarding Snape.
> >
> 
> Alla:
> 
> > Um, that is at least not proven. SNAPE says so. Dumbledore does 
> > not. Dumbledore says " my memory is as good as ever", which may 
> > mean many numbers of things.

> > Show me that Sirius tied Snape up and brought him in the shack 
> > put him under Imperius!curse and then I may agree that he is 
> > guilty of attempted murder. Even then I would like to know what 
> > Black's intention actually was, but then there is at least some 
> > kind of case can be made for attempted murder part.

Leslie41:
Well, Black deliberately tricks Snape into going to the whomping 
willow when Lupin is in full werewolf mode.  James is the one who 
stops Snape, because he realizes that Snape will most likely be 
killed. Dumbledore tells Harry that Snape owed James Potter a "life 
debt" after that.  Meaning that James had saved his life.  So yeah, 
I would call what Sirius Black does attempted murder.    

> Oh, and JKR said that we will learn MORE about Prank, that to me 
> means that we do not know everything of that night.

> And of course there is a nice possibility that Snape already knew 
> who Remus was since he was reading that essay about werewolves, so 
> I can see the possibility that Snape went into Shack knowing full 
> well whom he would be facing  and maybe wanting to try his hand of 
> kill Remus?

> There must be a reason why Snape assigns Harry class exactly the 
> same essay that he wrote and we KNOW why he assigns the essay – to 
> point who Remus was, could it be that he learned about who Remus 
> was under the similar circumstances and went into the Shack 
> thinking to try his hand in disposing of the dark creature, since 
> he liked DADA so much?

Leslie41:
You're really *really* reaching now.  There's not a shred of 
evidence for this, and it makes no sense.    

> Could it be that this is why Dumbledore made Snape shut up about 
> the events of the prank so easily? Not because of Dumbledore 
> favoring Gryffindors or any other fanfiction staff,  but because 
> Snape actually was mixed in the events of that night in NOT a good 
> way.

Leslie41:
Erm, again, no evidence for this.        

> The possibilities are endless, but NOWHERE in canon it is stated 
> with absolute certainty that Black is guilty of attempted murder, 
> except from Snape mouth of course, but if Snape never lies, do you 
> think that everything he said in the Spinner End was true too?

Leslie41:
No, but when Albus Dumbledore says that by stopping Snape James 
Potter saved his life, and Snape owed him a life-debt as a result, I 
guess I believe *him*.  And if James Potter saved Snape's life, then 
the person who deliberately put Snape in a place where he might lose 
it is guilty of attempted murder.  

Sirius Black.
 
> And of course we do NOT know that Sirius Black was never punished, 
> we only know that he was not expelled. Could it be that it was 
> that Dumbledore thought that expulsion was too harsh of the 
> punishment  for what REALLY happened that night?

Leslie41:
Well, show me the evidence and I'll consider it.  But you won't get 
far on pointless, unsupported speculation, especially when that 
speculation tends to contradict the accepted facts.