Snape, Apologies, and Redemption--Lupin vs. DD

[juli17ptf]

No: HPFGUIDX 152648

Alla:
> 
> I do NOT blame Snape for the murders other DE committed, I am just
> saying that it makes no sense that Snape did NOT commit murders,
> because that is what DE do - they kill and torture and poison
> people, no?
> 
> It is canon based speculation of course, but to me that makes sense.
> 
> I am saying that despite the fact that we do not see Snape
> committing muders in his DE days, it does not make sense to me that
> he did not do it.
> 
> I don't see a REASON for him not to. Or to be more precise I don't
> see a reason for Voldemort to reliving him of usual DE duties.
> 
> So, how is it guilt by association, if I am simply speculating that
> Snape committed murders of his own, which we simply do not know
> about yet?

Julie:
It wouldn't be guilt by association if Snape committed murders, but I 
don't agree that he necessarily had to commit murders to be a DE. 
True, most of the DEs we've met spend their time torturing and 
killing, but we don't know that all of them do. In any "criminal" 
organization (for want of a better term) the members perform a 
variety of tasks depending on each member's strength. In the mafia 
the guy who's a financial wizard (pun unintentional) might handle the 
books, for instance. He probably knows who has killed or been killed, 
even though he'd have no reason to take part in the murders because 
he has other skills valuable to the boss of the organization.

Similarly, there's no reason we have to assume Snape directly killed 
anyone during his time as a DE. Nor that he directly tortured anyone, 
guarded Voldemort's "prisoners", etc. He's a highly gifted Potions 
Master (this is very much supported by canon) and it makes perfect 
sense that Voldemort would use him in this capacity, to make life-
extending elixirs, truth serums to use on prisoners, or whatever. Add 
the additional canon of Snape's penchant for spying long before he 
did so for Dumbledore--the overheard prophecy incident and Snape's 
original application to Hogwarts at Voldemort's request--and we have 
TWO areas where Snape's intellect and skills are of much greater 
value to Voldemort than his wizardly brawn, which is something any 
dozen dunderhead DEs can easily provide.

BTW, the legal term for guilt by association in the case of murder 
is "accessory to murder," and it often carries the same sentence in a 
court of law as that of the actual murderer. If Snape was aware of 
the murders being committed by other DEs and did nothing to stop it 
(perhaps even aided their activities with his potions or in some 
other manner) then legally he is as guilty as any of them. Though 
perhaps his soul wouldn't be torn, and how that could make a 
difference in his chances for redemption I don't know.

> 
> > houyhnhnm:
> <SNIP>
> > Snape is a sympathetic character for me, not because he is not
> > responsible for what happened during VWI, but because he alone 
> appears
> > to own the responsibility for his actions.  The others never do.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Where does Snape own responsibility for his actions? Instead of 
> going to Azkaban to pay his dues for his DE days, he gets a nice 
job 
> of Hogwarts professor and Dumbledore's protection.
> 
> Instead of humble apology to Harry for playing part in his parents' 
> deaths, he well .... treats Harry badly ( that is me understating 
> things a lot)

Julie:
If Snape is DDM, he switched sides and quite likely promised to do 
whatever Dumbledore asked of him. True, he had twelve or so years of 
teaching before he was required to take direct action as a double spy 
in Voldemort's camp, but that doesn't mean he had any more real 
freedom than the DEs in Azkaban (though he likely remained much 
healthier, mentally and physically). Whether by magic or simply by 
his word he bound himself to Dumbledore, remained at Hogwarts 
teaching when for all we know he would have preferred to do 
*anything* besides that, waiting for the inevitable (assuming he 
believed along with Dumbledore that Voldemort would definitely be 
back). 

Really, while Hogwarts may have been more comfortable than Azkaban, 
it was definitely no free ride from responsibility. (If he was 
looking to deny responsibility he could have simply disappeared once 
Voldemort was turned into Vapormort, as he had nothing to fear from 
the Dark Lord at that point, and he could always worry later should 
his Dark Mark reappear. And perhaps during those twelve years he 
could have found a way to get rid of the mark!)

Julie