Hagrid and Snape: Was Snape, Apologies, and Redemption/Yo-Yo, Thimble, Mout

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 152769

Alla:
> Person who torments his students on the general basis is NOT a 
good 
> human being in my book, no matter whether he teaches his students 
> something or not, because if student learns something in his 
class, 
> but at the same time is so hurt in his class, that in my book is 
just 
> not worth it. And yes, education means A LOT to me too.

Magpie:
But that's your preference.  Other people, as we see in fandom, 
don't agree.  So they all give a pass to the teachers they prefer.

Alla:
> 
> I don't necessarily agree with Lupinlore that nice teachers in the 
> Potterverse get a pass, unfortunately I would say that they don't 
so 
> far, they suffer A LOT IMO.
> 
> Hagrid, who if I may brought in class Hypogriffs because they are 
> SUPPOSED to be in the program, he just started them earlier, it is 
> not like he brought the creatures for seventh year students in the 
> third year class, as far as I remember, gets jerked around by the 
> little bastard, who did not listen to the warnings, which were 
given 
> loudly.

Magpie:

Well, not exactly.  First, leaving aside the factual points about 
how loudly Hagrid's warnings are given, and just how advanced 
Hyppogriffs are, Hagrid's problems do not begin or end with Draco 
being hurt by Buckbeak, or Draco period. For me, needing to blame 
Draco just shows up Hagrid's own problems. It pushes the authority 
of the class onto one of the kids because Hagrid can't take it.  
Every school as a smartmouth, plus probably many students who are 
worse; Draco's not in every class Hagrid teaches, nor at the root of 
most of the Trio's anxieties about Hagrid as a teacher. 

Hagrid's problems as a teacher are apparent, imo, not when Draco 
gets slashed (as many kids get hurt in classes at Hogwarts, just as 
many many kids don't listen to directions or get them wrong-
something Snape loves to be a jerk about with Harry) but right 
afterwards, where he shows he wasn't really in control and the class 
dissolves into kids drifting over the grass fighting over events. 
They're still having the same fight years later.  The worst thing 
about CoMC for Harry over the years is guilt.  He worries what 
Hagrid will do, he knows even he himself prefers substitutes.  He 
sees the other kids not particularly happy about Hagrid's return in 
OotP, hears Luna casually say in Ravenclaw he's considered a joke 
(Draco's not in all these classes).  Harry and his friends try to 
lend their own authority to Hagrid by sometimes actively silencing 
dissent, but they can't always do that.  The kids in the class fight 
for authority in the absence of trusting Hagrid.  That's where I 
think he and Snape mirror each other sometimes.  When the teacher 
doesn't wear the authority of a teacher, or acts more like a peer, 
he's responded to as such and the class suffers.  Both Hagrid and 
Snape have times where they flash that weakness in different ways.

However, Snape doesn't always have that problem, no matter what 
students think he's a bastard. Ironically, when Potions does get a 
substitute in Slughorn Harry himself has a better year since he's 
lost his worst enemy in the class, he's got the HBP book making him 
a star and the teacher absolutely adores him, but the other 
kids...don't.  Snape in the past sometimes intentionally angered 
Harry and his friends or took points, but Slughorn's class possibly 
has even more resentment simmering in it.

Alla: 
> Lupin, well, do I even have to start? His prospects of ever 
returning 
> to teaching were ruined forever by another bastard, who seized the 
> opportunity and certainly took the most of it. ( Boy, was I glad 
that 
> JKR called Snape's action for what it was – NOT that he had any 
kids 
> safety reasons in his mind, when he did it)

Magpie:
Lupin does not have Hagrid's problems, even with the same class of 
students.  By all accounts he's got the authority that Snape has, 
while still being a nice guy. He's a great teacher.  He loses his 
job anyway when Snape tells on him, but Lupin himself also accepts 
blame for it since he did forget to take his Potion and so turned 
into a werewolf in front of kids.  

Alla:
His first class was great, IMO. He brought superdangerous animals,
who were in the programs, but he explained how to behave around them.

His confidence was shaken badly. More experienced teacher would not
took all of this so close to heart and continued to teach well, I am
sure Hagrid will learn.

The only thing is IMO carma is pretty good in JKR books for catching
up with bastards, so hopefully Snape will get what he deserves at the
end.

Magpie:
Hagrid's first class wasn't that great, since he didn't even get 
through it--and not due to anything outside what a person in that 
job would expect.  The end merely highlighted all the flaws of the 
first part.  It's three years later and Hagrid is still always 
talked about in terms of being "sure he'll get better" or "hasn't 
been so bad lately" by those with enthusiasm for his career.  Those 
without it seem to just put up with him if they can't avoid him.  I 
think at this point he's just another teacher with his 
characteristic quirks like Trelawney and Binns.  I don't believe 
much in karma as a supernatural thing, especially because I think it 
could read as very fake, but I do believe in actions and 
consequences.  That's what Hagrid and Snape--less so Lupin, but not 
entirely--deal with in canon.  Hagrid has the troubles his own self 
naturally brings, as does Snape.  We see the things that trouble him 
as a teacher also showing up outside of class.  Hagrid's very 
consistent that way.  It's not the random hand of chance that comes 
down on either Hagrid or Snape.  One can easily see them working 
towards their own fates.  Lupin is the one person suffering from 
something that is outside of himself-being a werewolf.  That, by 
definition, is out of his control.  (Though he takes responsibility 
for skipping his Potion.)

Tonks:
Yes, yes. This is what I am getting at. What do they mean to him? We
need to get inside his mind. We need to know how he thinks,
especially when he was a child. I think that DD wants Harry to do
this.. to understand the enemy. Know how he thinks so you can plan
how to outsmart him.

Come on all you detectives.. what was Tom thinking? Why are those
objects important? How do they tie into the Horcruxes that he uses?
Does he have any of them now? Has he collected anything else as an
adult?  Does Slughorn (who collects people) have anything to teach
us about hording behaviors that we can use when trying to understand
LV?

Magpie:
Oh!  Well, in that case I'd say that first DD wanted Harry to just 
see that Voldemort did this, because this is the behavior that 
explains why the pieces of his soul are encased in things that Harry 
will be able to figure out.  It makes sense, psychologically, that 
he puts things in important places rather than just places that are 
well-guarded or whatever--which makes for a more interesting horcrux 
hunt.  

I'd say that a yo-yo and a mouth organ, to me, would both be very 
attractive items in an orphanage.  They both do things--I'm 
connecting them to magic in a way, or power.  The yo-yo is something 
that one controls in a way that looks very magical.  The control 
would, I think, be something Tom himself wanted about it.  Same 
thing with the mouth organ.  You blow into it and somehow it makes 
music. I can remember both those things fascinating me as a kid and 
imagining what it would be like to make them work, flipping around a 
yo-yo or playing a tune on a harmonica, since one can't really see 
how they work just by looking at them.  It seems like you just have 
some magical skill that turns something that looks like a solid 
thing into something kind of amazing.

-m