Hagrid and Snape: Was Snape, Apologies, and Redemption/Yo-Yo, Thimble, Mout

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 152790

> Magpie:
> But that's your preference.  Other people, as we see in fandom, 
> don't agree.  So they all give a pass to the teachers they prefer.

Alla:

Sure.

 
>> Magpie:
<SNIP>
> Hagrid's problems as a teacher are apparent, imo, not when Draco 
> gets slashed (as many kids get hurt in classes at Hogwarts, just 
as 
> many many kids don't listen to directions or get them wrong-
> something Snape loves to be a jerk about with Harry) but right 
> afterwards, where he shows he wasn't really in control and the 
class 
> dissolves into kids drifting over the grass fighting over events. 
> They're still having the same fight years later.  The worst thing 
> about CoMC for Harry over the years is guilt.  He worries what 
> Hagrid will do, he knows even he himself prefers substitutes.  He 
> sees the other kids not particularly happy about Hagrid's return 
in 
> OotP, hears Luna casually say in Ravenclaw he's considered a joke 
> (Draco's not in all these classes).  Harry and his friends try to 
> lend their own authority to Hagrid by sometimes actively silencing 
> dissent, but they can't always do that.  The kids in the class 
fight 
> for authority in the absence of trusting Hagrid.  That's where I 
> think he and Snape mirror each other sometimes.  When the teacher 
> doesn't wear the authority of a teacher, or acts more like a peer, 
> he's responded to as such and the class suffers.  Both Hagrid and 
> Snape have times where they flash that weakness in different ways.

Alla:

Hmmm, that is an interesting analysis and as I said I am really not 
disputing that Hagrid had many problems as a teacher, BUT I do 
believe that you are downplaying the negative influence Draco's 
incident had upon Hagrid. In the beginning of PoA, Hagrid IS a brand 
new teacher, no? He has practically no experience and IMO he tries 
his best to make the class interesting by bringing more advanced 
creatures, but still those that have to be studied in the same year, 
so really to me it is not such a big deal, I also think that he gave 
the warnings loud an clear, IMO of course.

In any event, I agree that Hagrid cannot keep class in control and 
he cannot do it later on too, BUT he suffered enormous stress the 
FIRST lesson he started teaching - supposedly dear Draco got hurt 
badly, so very badly and then of course he starts milking his injury 
for what it is worth  in his fire Hagrid and kill Bickbeak.

All those incidents that you described occurred ( Luna saying that 
Hagrid is a joke, etc) after incident on the first lesson and IMO 
incredibly traumatic year for Hagrid. I would say that what Draco 
did could undermine Hagrid's efforts to become a better teacher A 
LOT.

IMO, and of course it is just speculation that if Draco's incident 
would not have happened , Hagrid could become better teacher much 
faster.

Now I am of course not so sure.

Oh, and let's not forget that in his youth Hagrid was already framed 
by dear Tommie and he was completely innocent then, just as he and 
Buckbeack IMO were now. I would say that it would increase the 
trauma, which Draco IMO inflicted upon Hagrid by framing him and 
Buckbeak.

I am curious though, what do you mean when you say Snape behaves as 
their peer?


Magpie: 
> However, Snape doesn't always have that problem, no matter what 
> students think he's a bastard. Ironically, when Potions does get a 
> substitute in Slughorn Harry himself has a better year since he's 
> lost his worst enemy in the class, he's got the HBP book making 
him 
> a star and the teacher absolutely adores him, but the other 
> kids...don't.  Snape in the past sometimes intentionally angered 
> Harry and his friends or took points, but Slughorn's class 
possibly 
> has even more resentment simmering in it.

Alla:

Eh, what do you mean that the other kids are having worst year? You 
mean those whose Slugghorn did not pick for his club? 

Is there anybody in Slugghorn class whom he actively hates? I would 
take teacher's indifference over hatred at any time, personally.

 
> Magpie:
> Lupin does not have Hagrid's problems, even with the same class of 
> students.  By all accounts he's got the authority that Snape has, 
> while still being a nice guy. He's a great teacher.  He loses his 
> job anyway when Snape tells on him, but Lupin himself also accepts 
> blame for it since he did forget to take his Potion and so turned 
> into a werewolf in front of kids.  


Alla:

Of course. I mean, give me Lupin at any time as  my teacher of 
choice at Hogwarts, I can add Mcgonagall too to the mix.

I bet Dumbledore was amazing teacher too.

Alla.