[HPforGrownups] Scary Teachers - Good Teachers (was: Re: Hagrid and Snape...)

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 152913


> Neri:
Overall, I get the quite consistent impression that the average NEWT
class numbers 25-28 students, and the potions class is unusually small.

Magpie:
The Potions class is forshadowed as being small and exclusive back in OotP 
when McGonagall says Snape only accepts O students.  Not to speak for Betsy, 
but I don't think her premise is that Snape's the best teacher, but that he 
seems to have gotten a good percentage of O's, which are hard to get, and 
what he was going for (I have to think of the class as having 40 students 
because whatever JKR says, everything in the book says 40, the same number 
of kids she created in her head).

I think Harry and Ron being the only kids not having books is good evidence 
that they are the only ones who did not get O's.  I see no reason to assume 
some secret message other kids were getting that they didn't, since not only 
is there no reason to think that Harry and Ron would no know about or check 
this information (or Herimone would) it's not mentioned in canon.  Harry 
gets early information on Slughorn and even he learns that he's the Potions 
master the same time as everyone else.  McGonagall is giving the Trio and 
Neville information on what they need to get into classes when they sign 
up--again no reference to things they could have looked up earlier.

Betsy's premise, which one may or may not agree with, is based on the idea 
that McGonagall describes Snape's class as being difficult to get into 
because he only accepts O's.  Harry and Ron to get plenty of E's, and Harry 
gets only one O--even Hermione somehow manages to get an E in DADA, 
something that to me is harder to believe than Ernie Macmillan getting an O 
in Potions.  I see no reason to think that his performance in Slughorn's 
class means he couldn't have gotten an O, and Hermione's behavior in class 
doesn't say to me she must be the only one with an O on her OWL.

So again back to Betsy's premise, she's saying (I think) that if Snape's 
produced at least ten OWLS that's fine.  (He may have produced more who 
didn't continue with Potions.)  McGonagall's class and NEWT DADA accept EEs, 
so twice as many students isn't very remarkable (that only Harry and Ron 
decide to take Potions once the requirements are reduced could mean Snape 
wasn't a reason for people not to take the class, or I suppose he could have 
made a lot of people hate the subject itself).  The DA may have given more 
kids an interest in DADA and the desire to continue--though I'd say given 
the state of the world DADA was of course going to be big.

As for the other classes, I guess we don't really know.  7 Gryffindors and 1 
Slytherin at least in Transfig, which means they got EEs.  25 EEs or up in 
DADA (had it required an O Hermione wouldn't have made it!).  There's no 
reason to assume that Gryffindor accounts for a quarter of the class 
literally.  Same with charms.  Qualifying for a class doesn't mean one will 
take it.  Certain subjects are probably more basic and have more 
students--I'd guess Charms is probably one of them.

For my own perspective, it's this: Oh dear, maths.  I don't think JKR has 
thought about literally how many students were in each class to give us 
hints about how to rank the teachers, but just a basic idea and who she 
wanted in the class.  I think all the teachers did fine, and that we know 
McGonagall and Snape are both demanding--business as usual. JKR's not so 
subtle, imo, that we'd need to infer something important about Snape as a 
teacher by comparing how many kids we think are in Potions to the number of 
kids are in the potentially much sexier and self-defense-teaching DADA.  If 
the Potions class was supposed to be small for some reason that really 
reflected on Snape, I think we'd hear it.  That's something that interests 
Harry.  I think it's more that since we're going to spend a lot of time in 
that class, she keeps the number controlled, while DADA naturally needs to 
be large because hello, Voldemort!  The other classes don't really matter 
about size.

-m