Scary Teachers - Good Teachers (was: Re: Hagrid and Snape...)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 152914

> >>Neri:
> Why do you assume that ten students in the NEWT potions class     
> achieved "Outstanding"? Do you think that everybody except Harry   
> and Ron got an Outstanding? I doubt this is the case.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Basically then, you're arguing that all the other students in 
Harry's class know more about what's going on at Hogwarts than Harry 
does.  With his strong, personal ties with Dumbledore.  That 
everyone else in Harry's class got a little note explaining that 
NEWT Potions is now excepting "Exceeds Expectations".  Perhaps 
McGonagall just failed to inform her Gryffindors while sending notes 
out to all the other students?

It seems like an illogical set of conclusions to me.  There's a 
sweet simplicity in just accepting the fact that only Harry and Ron 
do not have Potions textbooks, so therefore only Harry and Ron 
failed to make an Outstanding on their Potions' OWL.

> >>Neri:
> In fact, Hermione was obviously doing better than anybody else in 
> the class (except for Harry, who had an unfair advantage) during  
> the whole year, so it would be strange if all of them had         
> an "Outstanding" like she had. Judging from Ernie's performances I 
> doubt very much he got an Outstanding OWL. 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Or (and again, more likely) Hermione is the cleverest witch of her 
age, and Slughorn isn't Snape. <g>

> >>Neri: 
> Also, are ten students a quarter? JKR didn't say there are 40     
> students in Harry's year. She recently explained that she had     
> created 40 students with background, but she had never decided     
> they are the only students in Harry's year.

Betsy Hp:
Actually, I think there's probably less than 40 students in Harry's 
year.  There are only 8 Gryffindor's in his class (there's 
absolutely no way Harry hasn't met two girls in his house and in his 
year).

There's never been a sense that Gryffindor is vastly outnumbered by 
Slytherins in classes they share.  Nor do they appear to be vastly 
outnumbered by the Hufflepuffs they share classes with.  Similarly 
there's no mention of overwhelming Ravenclaws.

So, IMO, and there's no canon to suggest otherwise, approximately 10 
students in each house of Harry's year makes sense, and fits canon.

> >>Neri:
> And then she repeated the number of 600 students for the whole    
> school. 

Betsy Hp:
Which would average out to approximately 86 students in each year.  
Which is totally unsupported by canon for Harry's class. Again, 
there's nothing pointing to an unusually small Gryffindor for 
Harry's year.  Of course, Harry's class could easily be an unusually 
small group, since they were all born when Voldemort appeared to be 
winning the war.  While a couple of classes below Harry there could 
easily have been a WW baby boom.  So again, a class of approximately 
40 students in Harry's year makes the most sense. 

> >>Neri:
> So what we know for certain is that Snape produced 12 NEWT students
> who got EE or higher and wanted to continue with the subject.

Betsy Hp:
No, what we know for certain is that only Harry and Ron got Exceeds 
Expectations.  As everyone else had the proper supplies, everyone 
else in the class received an Outstanding.

> >>Neri:
> But is this number high, low or average? The only way to know     
> would be to compare it with the number of students in other NEWT   
> classes. DADA, for example.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
It'd be helpful if we knew what sort of requirement NEWT level DADA 
made.  We know it's not as stringent as Potions, otherwise Ron and 
Hermione wouldn't be in there.

> >>Neri:  
> There are 25 students in this class. It looks like five different 
> DADA teachers, three of them hopeless, produced more than *twice* 
> the number of NEWT students that Snape produced during these same 
> years.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
If Snape was as picky about his DADA students as he was about his 
Potions students, I think we'd probably have a class of one.  Though 
a few Ravenclaws may have squeaked on through.

So, we can't really compare DADA to Potions.  Potions is more 
elite.  At least when Snape was teaching it.

> >>Neri:
> Now, what about the Transfiguration NEWT class? I can't find how   
> many students it contains, but I do count at least seven          
> Gryffindors who are canonically in it: the trio, Dean, Seamus,    
> Lavender and Parvati.
> <snip>
> If you more reasonably assume that Gryffindor accounts for a      
> quarter of this class then there are *at least* 28 students total. 
> Not bad, Prof. McGonagall.

Betsy Hp:
Not bad.  Of course, Prof. McGonagall accepts Exceeds Expectations.  
Prof. Snape did not.  So again, Potions is more elite than 
Transfiguration, and again, to make a fair comparison we need to 
know how many of her students pulled an Outstanding.  (I'd bet 
McGonagall and Snape are about even on that score.)

> >>Neri:
> What about the Charms NEWT class?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Again, Flitwick takes Exceeds Expectations.  So again, this isn't a 
valid comparison unless you can show how many students pulled an 
Outstanding.  (Though again, I'd bet Flitwick and Snape are even.)

> >>Neri:
> Overall, I get the quite consistent impression that the average    
> NEWT class numbers 25-28 students, and the potions class is       
> unusually small.

Betsy Hp:
Of course it is.  It's the most elite NEWT course that we've seen.  
Snape has the highest grade requirement that we've seen.  But to 
have that sort of expectation and to have a quarter of his students 
meet that expectation speaks well of Prof. Snape.

And thats assuming that every single student that pulled an 
Outstanding on their OWL *wanted* to go for their NEWT.

Betsy Hp