Draco's potion making skills WAS: Scary Teachers - Good Teachers

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 153097

So sorry to be posting this again, but I managed to cut off half of 
it.

Alla:

Neri is a "he", as far as I know :).

Magpie:
Oops!  Sorry Neri.

Alla:

That's the thing though - to me
Neville does not show that Draco exaggerates here, although it
certainly can be read that way, I understand, I just don't see the
reason to discard the other possibility.

Magpie:
But what is the other possibility and why isn't it revealed later? 
That Marchbanks is actually best buds with the Malfoys and so fixing 
exams?

> Magpie:
> Yes, Snape's relationship with Draco goes beyond his performance
in Potions,> that's clear.  But that doesn't mean he can't get an O 
on his test.

Alla:

Yes, he could get an O on his test. My point is that I don't see
signs in canon that he did. If JKR considers this to be not an
important detail that can go in without any foreshadowing, than
sure, he could get any grade for all I know.

Magpie:
I don't understand how there are no signs in canon that he got an O
on his test when he's sitting there with his books in Advanced
Potions. Draco's always being cocky in Potions, going along fine in
class as a favorite with Severus "I expect results" Snape--why would
it need special explanation? He's not parting the Red Sea here, he's
just getting a lot of the questions right on a test and mixing a
Potion correctly.

> Magpie:
> No one is arguing that Snape favors Malfoy *because* he's a good
student.
> We know Snape's favor of Malfoy is personal.  We're saying that he
still
> also does well in his class, which isn't that remarkable. If he
didn't, imo,
> Snape's favor would come across very differently.


Alla:

Okay, first of all then I misundertood you completely. Didn't you
said somewhere upthread that Snape favors Draco BECAUSE he gets good
grades, because he is a good student? I apologise if this was not
your point.

Magpie:
No, sorry if I wasn't clear.  I think that Draco's being good in
Potions is part of his ongoing relationship with Snape--I think his
relationship with Snape also probably gives him reason to want to do
well in the class. I can't imagine Snape having a favorite who wasn't
performing up to his standard, but I don't think that means Draco is
Snape's favorite because he wowed him in Potions.  We know he's
connected to Draco's father, and they seem to also like each other
personally.

Alla:
And as I said above I don't see the signs of Draco doing well in
class, it is not necessarily contradicted by canon ( although I
agree with Neri - if one is good at something, usually one does not
feel a need to suck up in the first place IMO), but it is not shown
there either.

Magpie:
Draco *likes* Snape, so what Harry sees as sucking up does not have
to be that.  We never see him manipulating anything out of Snape
through flattery (or anybody managing to do that with Snape!) or even
needing to in class. The OWLS are independent of Snape, and I think
rather than two separate explanations for why he's not really as well
as suggested it's easier to just put the two things together, since
they don't conflict.

Alla:
And how differently Snape favor would come across if Darco was not a
good student in your opinion?

Magpie:
Snape would be frustrated and having to excuse Draco's not doing
well.  His favoritism would conflict with Draco's performance.  Harry
would love it.  I don't know if Snape could stand it.:-)  Actually,
Snape/Draco seems to sometimes provide a bit of an alternate
Harry/DD.  Both men may have set out with an agenda for the boy in
question but wound up relating in unexpected ways once the boy was a
real person in front of them.

houyhnhnm:
When lack of discrimination combines with judgementalism you get the
worst kind of Hufflepuff; you get Zacharias Smith.

Magpie:
I thought Zach was great.:-)  He's didn't really ask for the "other
side" from Harry, he just asks Harry to prove why Zach should trust
him, which seemed very Hufflepuff.  Ernie already had reason to trust
Harry due to his family.  I was frankly amazed at how hated Zach was
in HBP. It's not that I thought Zach was completely likeable, but the
total rejection of him seemed to me to say more about the inability
of the characters to deal with people who didn't agree fast enough.

>From what I've seen in the books, Hufflepuffs have the usual downside
of salt of the earth types.  Much like hobbits, they can be
suspicious of outsiders, resentful of people when they think they are
trying to put one over on them and we know people put them down as
duffers even though we've seen impressive Hufflepuffs.  I always have
this vague impression of Hufflepuff as the mob house, like the way on
Andy Griffith Show the great citizens of Mayberry go a little crazy
when strangers show up.

Ravenclaws seem more the types to keep their mind open too much,
certainly from Harry's pov.  Marietta's not totally on Harry's side,
Cho angers Harry by seeing Marietta's side etc.

Slytherins are outrageously emotional so no question about their
watery qualities, and Gryffindors are definitely fiery.

-m