My Take on the Whole Snape/Draco/Dumbledore/Secret Keeper Thing

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 161096

Sandra:
> 1) I don't think he hates muggleborns as much as he
> appears to.  I think when he was young he was more
> trying to fit in with both the purebloods/Slytherins
> he was with.  Maybe he was even TRYING to hate them
> with an outward appearance of it but not deep inside. 

Magpie:
This is an interesting topic in general, but as an adult I don't 
think we ever see Snape hating Muggleborns at all.  He's nasty to 
most students in some ways, but Hermione is usually criticized for 
being a know-it-all, not being a Muggleborn. She doesn't seem to be 
discriminated against in class by Snape.

Regarding the other theory in the thread about Snape and Lily, I 
think there's some merit to it whether it happened the way Alla 
described or the other way around.  That is, I think that scene in 
the Pensieve where Snape calls Lily a Mudblood is significant, maybe 
the ending of a friendship that had happened before.  If that's true 
I think Snape definitely would have chosen Pureblood ideology over a 
real friend--which is always going to be at the heart of that 
ideology.  If you are going to judge people on their bloodline 
you're cutting *yourself* off from good friends.

As to whether he truly believed it deep down, that's always a hard 
thing to say because how deep can something be before ceasing to 
exist for all intents and purposes?  I mean, Draco Malfoy seems to 
hate people like Hermione really for reasons other than her being a 
Muggleborn--he just expresses it through those beliefs.  But I don't 
think that makes him less of a bigot/racist/Pureblood elitist.  It 
might be a bit different with Snape since Draco was presumably 
raised to believe in this superiority while Snape had a Muggle 
father, but in both cases I think the racism provides/provided 
something for each boy. 

I guess this just always makes me think because I've heard more than 
one character described as not being really racist but just trying 
to fit in etc., and I just don't get the feeling JKR makes that 
distinction.  Blaise Zabini gets the same defense--he's got like six 
lines in canon and one's about blood traitors, and it's chalked up 
to peer pressure and trying to fit in for him too.  So as to whether 
Snape truly believed in Pureblood superiority, well, Snape is 
intelligent and logical for a Wizard so it's not beyond him to see 
that it's really a lie.  I think Draco's noticed some problems with 
the theory as well due to, for instance, Hermione's skills.  But 
racism is always irrational and illogical at heart.  As long as 
there's an emotional need for it, it exists in the world and in the 
character, imo.

Sandra:
> I feel he had a respect for Lily even though he called
> her names in public.  Remember that the one "memory"
> we saw of James and the others taunting him, even Lily
> hated James then and wouldn't have anything to do with
> him.  As of yet we don't know what changed her mind,
> of course, but something must have. ;-)

Magpie:
Right--but respect for Lily wouldn't necessarily make him less of a 
bigot.  Grudging respect can make a bigot all the more likely to 
lash out.  And I think Lily clearly already liked James in that 
Pensieve scene.:-)

Sandra: 
> Just because Snape has a similar parental situation as
> Tom Riddle doesn't mean he hated his Muggle Mother (of
> course, I could have forgotten that part in the book)
> like Tom hated his Father.  

Magpie:
Actually--you probably already know this, but Snape had a Muggle 
father and a Witch mother, like Voldemort.

Sandra:
Tom hated his Father
> because of the way he treated he and his Mother,
> despite the fact that the whole thing was brought on
> because of his Mother's desire and a spell and his
> Father was actually a victim.

Magpie:
Not exactly.  That's the way it seemed pre-HBP, imo, but that book 
seemed to make it clear that Tom hated his father for being a 
Muggle. He originally assumed his mother must be the inferior Muggle 
for dying.  He didn't really seem driven by anger at his father's 
treatment of him or his mother that I remember.
 
Sandra:
> I'm also positive his treatment of Hermione (at least
> in public) is an act.  I have a deep feeling that they
> are somehow working in private as well (if only having
> just to do with school work and not Order work). 

Magpie:
You mean you think that in private Snape and Hermione work alone and 
Snape's much nicer to her than he is in private?  I admit I see no 
evidence of this, or that Snape's normal demeanor is an act. He 
doesn't seem that great at faking feelings like that, and I don't 
see why he'd bother.

Sandra:
 Any
> of his comments don't seem to phase her at all anymore
> and I think that's because she realizes he HAS to act
> like that in public.  You never see any instances of
> them being in private and him acting like that.


Magpie:
There's no suggestion they are ever in private, period.  Why would 
Snape need to be insulting to Hermione in public?  

Sandra:
  One
> reason I think they may do things privately together
> is in OotP when Harry's hand is hurting because of the
> spelled punishment quill.  Now, Hermione suddenly
> comes up with this great potion for him to soak his
> hand in.  Even if she came up with the potion from a
> book, she HAD to have gotten the ingredients from
> Snape's cupboard.  I don't feel she would have stolen
> them because it wasn't really life or death like the
> other couple of times.  He had to have at the least
> allowed her to take them, if not coming up with the
> potion in the first place. 

Magpie:
I think the ingredients could easily have come from Hermione's own 
Potions kit or just not be that difficult to get--she could probably 
get it from Madam Pomfrey.  I think it's just essence of murtlap and 
not a Potion.  If JKR is writing in a secret relationship that we 
don't see, she always gives the reader of a sign of it that we can 
pick up on later reason, looks Harry is confused by or a character 
making a mistake and covering it up.  I can't recall any signs where 
Snape and Hermione are reacting to each other in a scene that's 
explained by a secret relationship.  

 Sandra:
> Now, for Draco ... I also haven't believed Draco was
> all bad ever since the end of CoS.  I'd have to read
> the entire book again to see if this is in the book
> and not just in the movie, but do you remember in the
> movie where they were at the bookstore and Draco comes
> down the stairs to taunt Harry before his Father puts
> the book in Ginny's cauldron?  Well, Draco pulled a
> piece of paper out of a book, folded it and put it in
> his pocket.  Later in the book, Hermione is found with
> a folded page of a book in her hand (and written on). 
> Now, I dont' believe for one second that Hermione
> would deface a book like that.  She would have
> transcribed the info on a separate piece of paper for
> herself.  I think that Draco knew what his Father was
> up to and was trying to help without anyone knowing. 

Magpie:
This is pure movie contamination, actually.  Draco steals no pages 
out of books and is shown to be both ignorant and outwardly 
enthusiastic (to his friends) about the Heir.  I think he's 
definitely shown to be less comfortable with the monster than he 
claims to be, but I don't think he's secretly trying to help the 
Trio--or that he knows anything about exactly what's going on 
besides the basic historical facts about the Heir.

Sandra:
Now don't get me wrong;
> I don't think he's all peaches and cream inside, but I
> don't think he's all bad and is trying to find his
> true self.

Magpie:
There I agree, though I think I may see Draco's struggle to find his 
own self a bit differently than you do, and coming much later in the 
series for different reasons.:-)

-m