Harry's remorse (Re: CHAPDISC: HBP24,)/Help for a Newbie

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 161282

> Magpie:
> > Well, Harry's on to everything working out really well after 
that 
> > unfortunate incident earlier. Is the author just wrapping up the 
> > plot threads?  Hard to say--Harry does tend to avoid ever really 
> > thinking about his own actions. Whenever he does something that 
> > leads to serious consequences he tends to either push the blame 
to 
> > someone else, justify himself completely or just move on as the 
> > universe rights itself again. 
> 
> Jen: I'm not sure that makes Harry different from a fair 
percentage 
> of teenage boys who prefer action or avoidance to introspection.  
> JKR does a good job of showing how teenage male relationships 
*can* 
> turn volatile with the right provocation, not only in the 
> relationship between Harry and Draco but with Snape and the 
> Maruaders as well.  I doubt Draco was sitting around worrying 
about 
> the bathroom incident, either. Life moves on and they both moved 
> with it. 

Magpie:
I wasn't really talking about his being introspective.  Part of the 
point of the novels are Harry learning and growing.  One can learn 
from experience without becoming Hamlet, if you know what I mean. 
Draco is actually an interesting example in HBP, because in the past 
he's never been the poster child for learning from your mistakes 
either, but I think plenty of young readers noticed that this was 
something that made him seem dumb. His storyline in HBP required 
more thinking about his actions.  

Or just popping into my head--Ron in GoF gets angry at Harry etc., 
and after they make up the narrator notes that Ron seems like he's 
being extra loyal to Harry because he seems to still feel badly 
about his behavior.  It seems like Ron actually looked back on his 
behavior and it meant something to him.  Ron sometimes falls back 
into old patterns too-like when he's nervous about Quidditch again-
but I think that's when it's being shown as a specific problem for 
the character.  

It's not that Harry never learns anything, but I think he's got 
certain patterns that trip him up or aren't exactly honest.  It's 
not that he never thinks about stuff again, it's often that he 
thinks about it enough to feel only comfortably justified or 
victimized and avoid anything that he might have done that wasn't so 
good.  If he's indeed avoiding thinking about that sort of thing 
after Sectumsempra, which I wondered if he was, it's a good example. 
Why I'm not sure is that sometimes I'm not sure if I'm supposed to 
be noticing Harry's avoiding some conclusion or not.

Jen:
> 
> Plus, I think avoidance IS a sign of remorse for Harry.  He isn't 
> going to dwell on his guilt like he did with Sirius' death, but 
the 
> fact that he wants to put it from his mind indicates he's not 
> comfortable with what happened.  We saw that pattern already with 
> him once he moved past dwelling on Sirius' death and decided he 
> didn't want to think or talk about it.  Things do bother him.  
Also, 
> Draco and Harry aren't so different, Draco isn't expecting an 
> apology because it's not something he would do or expect. 

Magpie:
That was my point, that the total dropping of all things Draco in 
Harry's mind seemed like it should be a sign that Harry was doing 
that because he wasn't comfortable with it.  I'm hoping it will be 
dealt with later.  I don't think as now it works as Harry dealing 
with it this way, because he's too unaware of it.  If Harry's trying 
to avoid, he has to stop at some point.  To compare it to Snape, for 
instance, if Snape really is driven by guilt over killing Harry's 
parents as some have suggested (including Dumbledore maybe), I think 
we'll have to see it or see Snape admit/realize it.  
 
> Magpie:
> > Despite earlier complications Harry "wins" again--Gryffindor gets
> > the Quidditch cup, and even though he didn't play as captain its
> > his victory, his getting banned wasn't a problem because Ginny
> > backs him completely (she also defends his use of Sectumsempra).
> > Plus he wins the girl. After a description of their sunny day 
kiss
> > he looks over her head ans surveys the defeated: Ron looks shock 
> > but accepts, Romilda is disappointed and Dean's so upset he 
breaks
> > a glass iirc.  
> 
> Jen: But he's the hero!!  He's supposed to get the girl and win 
the 
> Quidditch match. :) He also gets most of the crap jobs, like 
facing 
> Quirrellmort, slaying the Basilisk, force feeding a horrible 
potion 
> to his mentor, and being the only one who can defeat a 
psychopathic 
> killer.  Harry has to have *something* good happen every once in 
> awhile. 

Magpie:
This is sort of TWT II: Harry should/shouldn't come in first in 
every event. Some people see a sort of exchange going on, that 
success in one area is made up by Harry's hard life in others.  To 
me it reads like two different things: Harry the hero who has heroic 
challenges, and a more ordinary school story where Harry sometimes 
avoids normal disappointments of life. I think this might have been 
brought up in discussions about the TWT, but at times it feels maybe 
artificial.

Jen:
> 
> Although my son (8) is home today and out of curiousity I asked 
him 
> what he thought about those good things happening so soon after 
the 
> incident in the bathroom.  He said: "No...that wasn't right.  They 
> should have at least tied the game." Heh. So, you may turn out to 
> have more support than I will on whether this was the best ending 
> for the chapter.

Magpie:
Heh. Your son is cool.:-)  I can't speak for how he feels, but to me 
what pulls me up in the scene is probably connected to my 
expectations of cause and effect getting disappointed but not in a 
good way.  Like, it's originally set up that way with Harry's 
actions leading to him having to miss the game--it's every day stuff 
that every kid has probably had to deal with and accepts.  When he 
wins anyway I think it's almost more of a surprise like huh...oh. 
It's anti-climactic. It almost doesn't feel like a win.  Of course, 
when I read OotP the first time I actually mistakenly thought that 
Gryffindor came in second when the year was over to show my 
expectations there.  And even so that's the book that sort of 
destroyed any illusions of suspense in Quidditch anyway.

Carol:
It's unlikely that he even needed to go to Madam Pomfrey unless, 
like Draco, he was vain enough to be worried about scarring, in 
which case she might have given him dittany.

Magpie:
Bordering-on-meaningless point, but Snape's bringing up dittany in 
the scene doesn't have to be a response to a specific vanity's of 
Draco in the scene.  It's not that I can't believe the character 
would be upset by a scars--there's plenty of instances of the 
character focusing on appearance, including his own. I'm just saying 
that Snape's bringing up the dittany didn't seem like it had to be 
that Draco-specific.  It's not in response to anything Draco's done 
or said.  The thing about scars is they are forever, and I can see 
Snape in that instance having his own reasons for wanting there to 
be no physical scars of his curse on Draco.  James was of course 
pretty vain himself, though a scar might not have been a threat to 
his vanity.  

So yeah, while I don't think vain!Draco is uncanonical, the line 
doesn't seem to be speaking to that in the scene to me.

NJ:
Actually, this is a question for anyone and I'm not even sure this 
is allowed but I need help figuring this out. I've figured out all 
the abbreviations so far but what is OBHWF?
Thanks in advance.

Magpie:
OBHWF=One Big Happy Weasley Family.  It refers to the double pairing 
of R/Hr and H/G, since Harry and Hermione both marry into the 
Weasley family.  I always spell it wrong--it's a hard acronym!

-m