Violence/MoreHP/Fidelius/HBP'sCurses/DD'sWatch/Sneak In/CounterJinx/WhyJoinLV

[Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)]

No: HPFGUIDX 161439

Pippin wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/160910>:

<< I think they symbolize extremism, regardless of platform. The
werewolves are seeking additional rights, the pureblood faction wishes
to restore rights it once had and restrict the rights of others,
Voldemort panders to both while his private agenda does not include
sharing power with anyone. But they are all united under the Dark
Mark, in other words, by their acceptance of violence as a means to
political ends. >>

'Violence as a means to political ends'? Like the American Revolution?

forbidden_corridor wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/161059>:

<< even if [the seventh book] was available by the next day I was sure
I would finish reading it off in a week's time. So what would happen
next? I felt I just could not move on without Harry Potter. I fell
asleep praying and wishing JKR lives long enough to write many books
on Harry Potter that I would never have a day to move on without Harry
Potter.. >>

Even if she were willing to spend her life writing only about this one
subject, she can't write as fast as we can read. I'm afraid you will
have to make do with fanfic -- there seems to be enough fanfic on-line
to keep a reader busy for a lifetime.

Eddie wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/161091>:

<< I think [that Dumbledore and the other Order members didn't know
that Peter was the Secret Keeper] proves canonically that only Sirius,
Voldemort, and Peter knew where the Potters were hiding UNTIL the
secret was broken. Hagrid couldn't have found Harry at Godric's Hollow
before the secret was broken. >>

Dumbledore, Hagrid, and any one else necessary could be told the
Secret by the Secret Keeper without knowing who was the Secret Keeper.
Peter could write it in a note, as we saw in OoP that Dumbledore
Secret Keeper told Harry the Grimmauld Place Secret by writing it in a
note. And Peter could have written the note in handwriting disguised
to look like Sirius's.

<< So, any suggestion that the secret is still intact is, IMO, going
to have to deal with these canonical facts. >>

Altho' I completely agree that the Fidelius Charm must have been
broken *somehow* that night.

Eddie wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/161116>:

<< James used Levicorpus on Snape -- a spell Snape invented. How did
James learn this spell? From Lily, I speculate. I'm thinking that
Snape only ever told her about it, and then she went and blabbed it to
Snape's worst enemy. If I'm right, then Snape felt betrayed by Lily
the moment James used Levicorpus. >>

Please remember that Sirius and Remus said that that spell was
extremely popular among all the students that year, and there were
times you couldn't step out of your dorm room without finding yourself
hanging upside down by an ankle. To me it seems likely that James,
Sirius, and Remus didn't learn it from Lily and had no idea it had
been invented by Snape. I imagine that Snape taught it to the
Slytherins that he hung out with (IIRC, Rosier, Wilkes, Avery,
Bellatrix Black, and Rodolphus Lestrange) and most of them taught it
to a few other friends, and some Slytherin taught it to a Ravenclaw
he/she was dating, who taught it to some other Ravenclaws, who taught
it to other friends of theirs....

Eddie wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/161329>:

<< I wonder, if in fact Snape had Sectumsempra at the ready, whether
James "saved" [Snape] not because Snape was in danger, but because
LUPIN was in danger from Snape. This would mean James somehow knew
that Snape had this dangerous spell and that James thought Snape was
prepared to use it. >>

I think James had no idea that Severus had Sectumsempra, but still he
was protecting Remus. There is the danger to which you point, that
sixteen year old Severus had some anti-werewolf spells or weapons.
There is the more likely danger, that Severus would be unable to
defend himself against the werewolf and it would kill him. I wouldn't
be surprised if the Wizards have the death penalty or a life sentence
in Azkaban for a werewolf who kills a wizard during an uncontrollable
wolf frenzy; it's not fair, but it is in character. At best, Remus
would have to live with this killing on his conscience for the rest of
his life. 

Jen wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/161214>:

<< There was a theory right after HBP (Catlady maybe?) that Ron's
watch was from Dumbledore via his parents since they were so similar. >>

No, I was the one who counter-argued that the watches are described
differently. DD's in PS/SS: "It was a very odd watch. It had twelve
hands but no numbers; instead, little planets were moving around the
edge." Ron's watch in HBP: "a heavy gold watch with odd symbols around
the edge and tiny moving stars
instead of hands."

Ron's watch - no hands. DD's watch - 12 hands.
Ron's watch - odd symbols. DD's watch - no mention of odd symbols.
Ron's watch - moving stars. DD's watch - moving planets.
I also think that 'instead of hands' is a bit closer to the center
than 'around the edge'.

Some suggest that the 12 hands on DD's watch are 12 people over whom
he is watching, but I think that watch is strictly astrological In my
theory, the 12 hands divide the 12 houses. (In the physical world, the
sky turns and the Houses stay in place except for like 1 degree a day,
but the watch face stays in place and the House Hands turn.) The
planets around the edge move in accordance with the planets in the
real sky. DD knows, or there is some marking not specified in JKR's
description, where the constellations are. Such a watch can tell time
AND tell you the moment's astrological influences. I don't think JKR
believes in astrology, but the centaurs do.

Carol wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/161215>:

<< Dumbledore and Snape seem to think it would be impossible to sneak
into the castle in PoA and are puzzled as to how Black managed it. And
surely DD wouldn't leave the doors completely unguarded and unlocked
after the students were in bed, especially after the first attack (on
the Fat Lady). (snip) Lupin seems to think that Black's being an
Animagus explains everything. I disagree. >>

Maybe some student leaves a window slightly open for a pet cat or pet
owl to come in and out, and Crookshanks told Snuffles. I agree they're
not an ordinary cat and dog -- they communicate in far more abstract
ideas (e.g. take this note to Quality Quidditch Supplies and give it
to the shop assistant) than I've ever known any cat to use. 

Magpie wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/161367>:

<< Which having read the books I would agree with. Counter-hexes do
always basically seem to be hexes that you throw at other people
rather than, for instance, blocking spells. >>

I completely agree with you about Hermione's non sequitur, but I don't
agree with you about counter-curses. (I believe that counter-curse,
counter-hex, counter-jinx are the same. See
<http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/extrastuff_view.cfm?id=24>) 

One that comes immediately to mind is Fake!Moody teaching the about
the Killing Curse (Avada Kedavra): "Not nice," he said calmly. "Not
pleasant. And there's no counter-curse. There's no blocking it. Only
one known person has ever survived it, and he's sitting right in front
of me."

Also in GoF, we have Hermione helping Harry prepare for the Third
Task: "He was still having trouble with the Shield Charm, though. This
was supposed to cast a temporary, invisible wall around himself that
deflected minor curses; Hermione managed to shatter it with a well
placed Jelly-Legs Jinx. Harry wobbled around the room for ten minutes
afterwards before she had looked up the counter-jinx."

PS/SS: "At that moment Neville toppled into the common room. How he
had managed to climb through the portrait hole was anyone's guess,
because his legs had been stuck together with what they recognized at
once as the Leg-Locker Curse. He must have had to bunny hop all the
way up to Gryffindor tower.

Everyone fell over laughing except Hermione, who leapt up and
performed the countercurse. Neville's legs sprang apart and he got to
his feet, trembling."

And Quirrelmort's confession: ""No, no, no. I tried to kill you. Your
friend Miss Granger accidentally knocked me over as she rushed to set
fire to Snape at that Quidditch match. She broke my eye contact with
you. Another few seconds and I'd have got you off that broom. I'd have
managed it before then if Snape hadn't been muttering a countercurse,
trying to save you."

In the latter three examples, the counter-curse removes the effects of
its specific curse (Jelly-Legs Jinx, Leg-Locker Curse, broomstick
curse). The broomstick example shows Snape's counter-curse can remove
the effects of Quirrelmort's curse while that curse is still being
cast. Presumably if the counter-curse was cast powerfully enough and
fast enough, it could remove the effects of the curse before they even
occured, thus serving to *block* the curse entirely. So Fake!Moody's
"no counter-curse, no way to block it" would be repetition for
emphasis.

Jen wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/161391>:

<< 1) Wizards like Lucius who place the pure blood issue above all
else, who think Voldemort's goal is to rid the WW of muggleborns.
2) Those who are coopted into service out of fear like Peter.
3) Those who have immersed themselves in the study of the Dark Arts
and view Voldemort as a path to magical knowledge. My assumption is
Snape fits here. >>

and 4) << And others don't fall into these categories, they have
personal reasons to be a DE much like Crouch Jr. who probably
initially wanted to get back at his father and only later became a
fantatic. His hook was a substitute father rather than pure blood
ideals or interest in dark magic. >>

I think Lucius went joined Voldemort as a way personally to gain power
(expecting that Voldemort will be dictator over all wizards, and
Lucius will tell Voldemort what to do) rather than because of the pure
blood issue. I think Regulus Black seems to have joined because of the
pure blood issue.

I don't think that many people joined the Death Eaters in intellectual
pursuit of the Dark Arts (e.g. seeking access to forbidden books). 

I have whole categories (not just 'Other') for those who joined
because their friends had joined, and for those who joined because the
recruiter was a very attractive person of the appropriate sex and age,
and for those who joined because the Death Eater organization had the
power to keep law enforcement from interfering with their crimes (e.g.
if the senior Crabbe and Goyle hadn't joined because Lucius told them
to, they might have joined as a way to avoid getting arrested for
practising a hobby of beating up wizards and raping witches), and for
those who joined because they expected to get money or some other
desire (e.g. 'Pay me 50 Galleons or the Death Eaters will visit your
home and leave nothing but the Dark Mark in its place', but also 'one
of our members in the Ministry Personnel Department can upwardly
adjust your scores on that promotional exam').