JKR and the boys (and girls)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 161556

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > Ginny wasn't involved at all in Hermione's attempt to save      
> > Buckbeak, even after Ron and Harry bowed out for a bit.  Ginny   
> > isn't involved in Hermione's SPEW (wasn't Neville the only other 
> > person Hermione was able to get involved?). 

> >>Pippin:
> SPEW's not a  secret. I suspect Ginny didn't want to have anything 
> to do with it and said so, for all the reasons enumerated by the   
> other characters.

Betsy Hp:
Right, but IMO, that goes towards Ginny and Hermione not being bosom 
friends. Either Ginny would support Hermione while thinking her 
mad.  Or she wouldn't support Hermione and Hermione would be a bit 
depressed or annoyed by it.  IIRC, Ginny's opinion never registered 
as a factor.

> >>Pippin:
> But as Harry wasn't paying much attention to Ginny's opinions in   
> GoF, we didn't get to hear about it.

Betsy Hp:
I have two feelings about this sort of thought (both very much my 
opinion, of course).  

One, this is an excuse used to cover up or explain away bad writing 
on JKR's part.  Even if your POV character doesn't pay attention to 
something, an author should be able to get across what they choose 
to get across.  If Ginny and Hermione were close friends at this 
time the reader should be aware of it, even if Harry doesn't care.  
If JKR failed to do so than she's done a bad job writing Ginny's and 
Hermione's relationship.

Or two, this is an excuse used by readers to explain why something 
they think is happening isn't covered at all in the narrative.  JKR 
is a good enough writer to get across the important information, so 
if it's not there, then it's really not there.  Ginny and Hermione 
don't have a special relationship.

I waffle between the two. <g>  But at the moment I'm giving JKR the 
benefit of the doubt.
 
> >>Pippin:
> There were long stretches in PoA when Ron and Harry weren't       
> talking to Hermione at all, and that might have been when Ginny   
> and Hermione got to be close. 

Betsy Hp:
But we're told that Hermione spends that time with Hagrid or 
researching to find a way to save Buckbeak. Ginny is never described 
as being with her.  When Ron and Harry had their fight in GoF, we 
are told that Ron is hanging out with Dean and Seamus, so I'm not 
sure why JKR wouldn't mention that Hermione hung around Ginny in 
PoA, if that's what we're supposed to see.

> >>Pippin:
> <snip>
> Also, Hermione's intellectual isolation is part of the story, and
> it would cut across it if she had Ginny to bounce her ideas off of.
> Hermione hasn't learned to bounce her ideas off *anyone*, and
> that's one of the things she has to learn to do. She's just too
> insecure to attempt it. 

Betsy Hp:
I agree.  Which is why I don't see Ginny as Hermione's best friend.  
Hermione doesn't *need* Ginny.  I think Hermione likes Ginny just 
fine.  And Hermione enjoys Ginny's company when she's visiting the 
Burrow.  But while at Hogwarts, with everything else going on, 
Hermione only has time for her best friends, Ron and Harry, and 
their overlapping interests.

Since I don't see Ginny resenting Hermione at all over this, I 
assume that Ginny doesn't feel the need to make Hermione her best 
friend either.

> >>Pippin:
>  But the girls must be close, IMO, not to resent the time Harry 
> spends with the other, even with no romantic rivalry. 

Betsy Hp:
Hermione has no reason to resent Ginny until the end of HBP.  And 
since Ginny has no claim on Harry until that point, I'm not sure 
what she'd resent Hermione over.  Especially as we know that Ron is 
a bit closer to Harry anyway.

I think Hermione and Ginny are comfortable together.  They're not so 
entirely different they can't get on when they're together.  But I 
just don't see the two as best friends.  If they have a choice, they 
tend to hang with other people.

> >>Pippin:
> JKR can be a very economic writer, so one giggly conversation     
> about love potions has to stand in for six years of girl talk,     
> just like canary creams and levicorpus have to stand in for six   
> years of rough-housing. 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Which is what Miles was missing I think (I'm quite possibly putting 
words in Miles's mouth here): the economics over simple and warming 
human interaction.  By putting story-telling economics over 
character development there's a human element missing from the 
Potter books.  Something the director of PoA felt so essential he 
actually wrote such a scene into the film.

And for me, I can say the economic giggling about love potions 
failed.  It's not enough to get me to see Ginny and Hermione as 
bosom friends.  If JKR wanted me to buy that sort of thing she 
needed to throw a bit more in.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > It [the Yule Ball] was just not all that stressful for Hermione, 
> > relative to Harry and Ron.
 
> >>Pippin:
> Yeah, Hermione was so cool over it all that she got into a        
> screaming, shouting, hairdo destroying brawl with Ron. She never   
> gets worked up about that stuff, except when she sends killer     
> canaries to peck someone's eyes out. 

Betsy Hp:
But that wasn't over the stress of *dating*.  That was the stress of 
*Ron*.  Hermione effortlessly landed the school's most eligible 
bachelor soon into the asking process.  Harry and Ron spent most of 
the time scared stiff about landing a date, and only end up with a 
date at the last minute (Ron needing Harry's help).  Hermione 
effortlessly shows up beautifully groomed and beautifully dressed.  
Harry is as effortlessly gorgeous, but Ron has to suffer through 
awkward formal clothes that make him look and feel uncomfortable.  
IIRC Hermione dances quite well, Harry dances badly, and Ron refuses 
to dance at all.  Hermione has a wonderful time, Harry is bored 
stiff, Ron is miserable.  

We get a similar deal in HBP with Slughorn's Christmas party.  
Hermione effortlessly lands a date that meets her political 
requirements.  Harry does his awkward grab thing, and of course Ron 
was never invited in the first place.  The only awkwardness Hermione 
has to go through is a date who's intentions are quite different 
from hers.

So yeah, I do think Hermione has the social aspects of dating pretty 
much sown up.  And from the moment she's expected to figure it out 
no less.  It's the falling in love thing that she's struggling 
through. (Which actually fits in with her character quite well.)

> >>Pippin:
> Are we reading the same books?

Betsy Hp:
I think we're reading the same books...  I'm just reading them in 
the back of soon to be closed bar, sucking down cheap cigarettes and 
cheaper liquor, fighting off a headache and a broken heart.  While I 
loved HBP for what it did for the "bad guys" (read Slytherins), the 
Gryffindors took some pretty bad lumps, IMO.  

While I still love the various ethical questions the Potter books 
raise, I'm starting to get a bit terrified of JKR's conclusion.  
When the books end, will I even like the main characters anymore?

Betsy Hp (contemplating a full series reread... someday)