JKR and the boys (and girls)

[phoenixgod2000]

No: HPFGUIDX 161573


> Betsy Hp:
> I have two feelings about this sort of thought (both very much my 
> opinion, of course).  
> 
> One, this is an excuse used to cover up or explain away bad writing 
> on JKR's part.  Even if your POV character doesn't pay attention to 
> something, an author should be able to get across what they choose 
> to get across.  If Ginny and Hermione were close friends at this 
> time the reader should be aware of it, even if Harry doesn't care.  
> If JKR failed to do so than she's done a bad job writing Ginny's 
and 
> Hermione's relationship.

Phoenixgod2000:  

A bad job of writing Ginny? I'm shocked.  Shocked I say :)

> Or two, this is an excuse used by readers to explain why something 
> they think is happening isn't covered at all in the narrative.  JKR 
> is a good enough writer to get across the important information, so 
> if it's not there, then it's really not there.  Ginny and Hermione 
> don't have a special relationship.
> 
> I waffle between the two. <g>  But at the moment I'm giving JKR the 
> benefit of the doubt.

I've lost a lot of faith in JKR. The past two books have been 
disappointing in my view.  There have been pieces of greatness in 
both of them but a lot of disappointment as well. And all of that 
disappointment involved Characterization sacrificed for Plot.

Sometimes I think she has lived so long with these characters in her 
head that sometimes forgets to include things for all the people who 
can't peer into her brain. I think she probably does believe that 
Hermione and Ginny are best girlfriends and they are--in her head--
but I don't think she does a good job of conveying that in the text.
  
> Betsy Hp:

> I think Hermione and Ginny are comfortable together.  They're not 
so 
> entirely different they can't get on when they're together.  But I 
> just don't see the two as best friends.  If they have a choice, 
they 
> tend to hang with other people.

Frankly I think they are that different. I think Harry, Ron, and 
Draco--if they could get past Draco's assery--would have more in 
common with each other than Hermione and Ginny do.  I can't imagine 
what they would even talk about aside from Harry. 
 
> Betsy Hp:
> Which is what Miles was missing I think (I'm quite possibly putting 
> words in Miles's mouth here): the economics over simple and warming 
> human interaction.  By putting story-telling economics over 
> character development there's a human element missing from the 
> Potter books.  Something the director of PoA felt so essential he 
> actually wrote such a scene into the film.

I don't know about Miles but it is what I am missing in the story. It 
is one thing to say that that stuff happens offscreen but Harry 
demonstrates again and again that is isn't happening at all.  He is 
too ignorant of others in the school for Harry to be goofing around 
with them offscreen. and regardless of how insular harry is, that 
just isn't plausible.  When I was in school, I was hardly a big man 
on campus in a much bigger school than Hogwarts and I could have 
named every student in my class and said something about them. 
> 
> And for me, I can say the economic giggling about love potions 
> failed.  It's not enough to get me to see Ginny and Hermione as 
> bosom friends.  If JKR wanted me to buy that sort of thing she 
> needed to throw a bit more in.

> Betsy Hp:

> So yeah, I do think Hermione has the social aspects of dating 
pretty 
> much sown up.  And from the moment she's expected to figure it out 
> no less.  It's the falling in love thing that she's struggling 
> through. (Which actually fits in with her character quite well.)

She does seem to have the dating scene sown up but I actually do find 
that out of character.  This is the girl who in her first year had 
almost no friends and barely knew how to act around the ones who were 
her friends.  she got better over the years, but I have known a lot 
of students in my years as a teacher just like Hermione (male and 
female both) and I can tell you they are no good at dating except 
inside their head. Get them in a real situation and without fail they 
fall apart.  For her to be somehow antisocial and an uberdater cool 
chick strikes me as inconsistent writing and a cheap way of showing 
up the guys and making them look pathetic.
 
> Betsy Hp:
> I think we're reading the same books...  I'm just reading them in 
> the back of soon to be closed bar, sucking down cheap cigarettes 
and 
> cheaper liquor, fighting off a headache and a broken heart. 

I think I've seen you there...Except I don't have the whole broken 
hearted thing going :) I have my gorgeous wonderfully supportive 
fiance (Hi Honey!) with me in the bar plying me with liquor because 
she finds my drunken rants on Snape endlessly amusing.

Seriously, I spent all of halloween drunkenly debating HP in a seedy 
biker bar...

phoenixgod2000, who isn't even touching the gender stuff in Harry 
Potter. That could set me off on a rant lasting for days.