Kreacher the Plot Device Elf

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 161802

---  "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> bboymin:
> > Kreacher on the other hand, I believe, is too far 
> > 'round the bend to ever be a fully functional 
> > house-elf. ... but I think his level of service 
> > would be marginal at best. <snip>
> 
> Carol:
> Do we know that? He certainly still has his magic and
> can Apparate .... I don't see why he couldn't magically
> cook or clean if he chose to. He doesn't seem to be at
> the point where he'd needs to be beheaded for inability 
> to work if he were working for the Blacks. ...
> 

bboyminn:

Keep in mind that I didn't say 'non-functional' as a 
house-elf, I said 'marginally' functional. Kreacher is 
clearly very old, his body is bend, his hair (was little
their is) is gray, and most importantly he is quite mad.
Are those really the qualification you look for in a 
servant?

Yes, Kreacher could probably cook, but would you want to 
eat that food? Yes, he could probably go about the house
in efforts that modeled cleaning, but how much cleaner
would things actually be and how much time would it take
him? He would probably spend all his time hobbling 
around and muttering to himself.

Now, in the right environment, on a large farm, they 
might be able to find tasks for Kreacher that don't 
involve a lot of human contact, but even then I see
far more incoherent muttering that actual applied
labor.

Again, his efforts may rise to the level of maginally
acceptable, but I really don't see them rising above
that. He body is old, bent, and weak, and his mind just 
barely grips reality. That was fine when he was 
stumbling about the house alone, but his actions when
engaging humans show that his mind is clearly 
questionable. Is he really the mad elf you want serving
tea to your guest????


> bboymin: 
> > Further, I have always wondered if Elves can read and
> > write. In the Old South it was actually against the 
> > law to teach slaves to read and write. I sort of have
> > the same sense about Elves, and once again through a
> > long complicated series of events, I have picture 
> > Harry opening a school to teach Elves ...
> 
> Carol:
> Kreacher knows that Tonks's mother has been burned off
> the tapestry. That suggests but admittedly doesn't prove
> that he can read. And wouldn't house-elves have prepared
> the magical menus that Dumbledore and the others ordered
> from at the Yule Ball? And Dobby must have some basic 
> concept of arithmetic if he uses Wizarding money to buy 
> clothes. He can certainly count.
> 


bboyminn:

Speaking with no proof what so ever, Kreacher many have 
deduced what happened based on accumulated hearsay. In
other words, he heard Mrs. Black say what she was going
to do then saw her do it, and reached a reasonable 
conclusion that didn't involve actually reading anything.

Also, I don't think it is absolute. Despite it generally
being against the law, some slaves were very educated. 
Some even undertook business activities on behalf of 
their master. So, I think logically some elves would have
some degree of ability at reading and writing, but overal
I speculate that teaching them to read and write was not
a priority for their masters. Their jobs were to cook,
clean, and engage in general labor, and therefore had no
need to read. 

As a side note: I did not compare Elves to Slaves which I
also believe in an inaccurate and unfair comparison. I 
compared one aspect of Elves to one specific aspect of 
slaves, and I do think that was an accurate and fair 
comparason for purposed of illustrating my point.

As to the menus, it is possible that Dumbledore or
McGonagall made the first one, and the elves magically
duplicated them without knowing or understanding what 
they said. Note that the orders are placed verbally.

As to the money, as I read your post, I was reminded
of the time I spend in Germany. I was really quite 
young and pathetic at the time. When ever we went to 
a bar, pub, restaurant, or club and it came time to
pay, the wait-person would say 'blah-blah blah-blah'
and I would reach into my pocket take out a hand full
of money and hold it out, and just trust them to be
honest about taking the right amount. Other times
when it involved paper money, I would ask them to 
right it down. Though they use commas in all the
wrong places and always use those funny looking sevens,
but we got by, and I assume Dobby gets by in a similar
fashion, simply depending on the kindness and honesty 
of strangers. Though, I think people knowing he worked
for Dumbledore helped enforce their honesty.


> Carol, wishing that Harry would order Kreacher to wear
> a clean tea towel and wash or replace that loincloth
>

bboyminn:

OH ABSOLUTELY... that is one of many reasons why I don't
think Kreacher could be a /normally/ functional House-
Elf. How can he take care of a house when he doesn't 
even take care of himself? Really, can you see that filthy
creature serving tea and cooking food, and would you really
want to drink that tea or eat the food??? NOT ME!

I confess Kreacher would be better under the influence of 
a Master he liked and other house-elves, but I just don't 
think, even at his best, he would ever be good enough. Again,
marginal at best.

Just one man's opinion.

Steve/bboyminn