That diary.....

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 161862

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

 > To repeat an important point, I agree with you that there's no such
> thing as an accidental Horcrux. Whether or not the diary contained a
> soul bit that came out along with the memory because young Tom had
> already committed a murder (and I'm only considering that as a
> possibility, not arguing that it happened), *the diary was not a
> Horcrux until Tom cast that spell,* which I don't think he could have
> done until some time after he talked to Slughorn in his sixth year and
> probably not until after he'd left Hogwarts since, as I said in the
> portion of my post that you snipped, it's unlikely that he could find
> directions for creating a Horcrux at Hogwarts and he didn't get them
> from Slughorn. Possibilities for where he learned the incantation and
> the exact procedure for encasing a Horcrux include a visit to
> Grindelwald, whom I take to be the other Horcrux-maker known to both
> DD and LV, or books he bought in Knockturn Alley while he was working
> at Borgin and Burke's.
> 
> Carol, who is *not* arguing for accidental Horcruxes, only that the
> diary was a powerful magical object, intended to be interactive,
> before it was a Horcrux

Geoff:
I think I tend to agree with you. Since Myrtle's murder was in Tom's Fifth 
Year and he was asking Slughorn about Horcruxes in the Lower Sixth, 
I am inclined to think that he found out the spells required to convert 
the diary into an object to hold his preserved memories and, as such, 
it was a very different animal to a Horcrux at the beginning.

After all, in his conversation with Harry, the following occurs:
'"Are you a ghost?" said Harry uncertainly.
"A memory," said Riddle quietly. "Preserved in a diary for fifty years."'

(COS "The Heir of Slytherin" p.227 UK edition)

Slughorn also makes it clear that creating a Horcrux is a definite 
premeditated act.

'"But how do you do it?"
"By an act of evil - the supreme act of evil. By committing murder. 
Killing rips the soul apart. The wizard intent upon creating a Horcrux 
would use the damage to his advantage: he would encase the torn 
portion -"
"Encase? But how- ?"
"Therer is a spell, do not ask me, I don't know!" said Slughorn...'
(HBP "Horcruxes" p.465 UK edition)

By killing Myrtle, Riddle had created a tear in his soul - but not a 
Horcrux. It would seem that, by the time he approached Slughorn, 
he had heard something about Horcruxes but obviously had only 
skimpy information.

Based on that, I put my money firmly on the side of the argument 
that there is no such thing as an accidental Horcrux. It does lend 
credence to the theory that a Horcrux can be created later to act 
as a receptacle for a soul piece. I wonder however whether there is 
some sort of time limit so that a Horcrux cannot be created for a 
murder long past and the soul piece gets left floating around so 
that Voldemort could not do something like making Harry a Horcrux
after he regained his body.

But, there again, my whole view of Harry not being a Horcux is, if 
Voldemort had at some point made him into one, why would he
then persistently try to kill Harry which would bring about the 
destruction of a section of his own soul?

Geoff
Sticking to my "Harry is a Noncrux and will live" theories