That diary.....

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 161844

doug rogers :
> > Riddle might then have realized what he had done - created a
horcrux - and then sought out information from Slughorn on creating
others. (?)
> 
Carol earlier:
> That makes sense to me, especially since the original purpose of the
> diary was clearly to release the Basilisk. Maybe a soul bit was
> attached to the memory(ies) because Myrtle's death counts as a
murder? Not a perfect explanation, but I don't see why he asked
Slughorn about Horcruxes if he was certain he had already created one.
<snipped by Jeremiah: Go upthread for the rest>
 

Jeremiah responded:
> 
> I don't know. I think that from my own reading of the text, that the
Horcrux is deliberately created. I think this because a portion of the
soul is extracted into another "object" and if you can just kill
things and "woops I made a Horcrux" then where is Snape's from
Dumbledore's murder?
> 
> Also, I since I feel that a Horcrux is deliberately created, then
this rules out 2 things for me... 1) Harry is an "accidental Horcrux"
(but I could be wrong... I'm wrong a lot). And 2) the Basilisk/Myrtle
scenario was a deliberate murder if the Diary was created at that
time. However, the Diary was not designed specifically to release the
Basilisk but was created to do any number of things.
> 
> This also raises a question. If Myrtle's death was what created the
Horcrux then that means the "Horcrx-maker" does not have to kill
anyone to make the horcrux and must fracture their soul by other
means/murders. Who would Tom Riddle have murdered before Myrtle to
fracture his soul? This, we do not know. I only know that he used to
frighten other children and terrorize them.

Carol:
Well, no. That wasn't quite what I meant. I absolutely agree that
there's no such thing as an accidental Horcrux and I've repeatedly
argued against the Harry!Horcrux hypothesis. 

I'm just considering the possibility that a soul bit got into the
diary accidentally along with the memory but that it *wasn't yet a
Horcrux* because Tom didn't know the spell to create one. I feel
strongly that the diary was a powerful magical object created
specifically to release the Basilisk, proving that Tom Riddle was the
Heir of Slytherin, before he knew how to create a Horcrux. I'm trying
to figure out how the diary could be interactive without yet being a
Horcrux.

Using the soul bit from Myrtle's murder, accidentally or on purpose,
does not mean that the soul can be split without committing murder.
IMO, Tom murdered Myrtle by releasing the Basilisk on her, just as
Diary!Tom would have murdered Harry by releasing the Basilisk on him.
Murder is murder, whether you use a Basilisk or a wand or a gun. I'm
not suggesting that he murdered anyone before Myrtle. she's important
because she's his first Myrtle and because she's proof that he, the
Heir of Slytherin, can control the Basilisk. Heavy stuff if you're Tom
Riddle.

To repeat an important point, I agree with you that there's no such
thing as an accidental Horcrux. Whether or not the diary contained a
soul bit that came out along with the memory because young Tom had
already committed a murder (and I'm only considering that as a
possibility, not arguing that it happened), *the diary was not a
Horcrux until Tom cast that spell,* which I don't think he could have
done until some time after he talked to Slughorn in his sixth year and
probably not until after he'd left Hogwarts since, as I said in the
portion of my post that you snipped, it's unlikely that he could find
directions for creating a Horcrux at Hogwarts and he didn't get them
from Slughorn. Possibilities for where he learned the incantation and
the exact procedure for encasing a Horcrux include a visit to
Grindelwald, whom I take to be the other Horcrux-maker known to both
DD and LV, or books he bought in Knockturn Alley while he was working
at Borgin and Burke's.

Carol, who is *not* arguing for accidental Horcruxes, only that the
diary was a powerful magical object, intended to be interactive,
before it was a Horcrux