Freedom for House-Elves (Was: Kreacher the Plot Device Elf)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 162160

> >>Ceridwen:
> > <snip>
> > ...I had hoped to say that it seems that elves have no other 
> > option than to work as slaves. The suits their nature, whether    
> > this nature is inborn or enchanted on them. They have no other    
> > recourse, no place to go where they can get gainful employment to 
> > meet their needs.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Hmm, the way I see it, House-elves enjoy domestic work. 
> > <snip>
> > And generally, a good domestic can always find a job.

> >>Ceridwen:
> So, since they like to cook and clean, being domestic slaves suits 
> their natures.  And yes, a good domestic is certainly a treasure.

Betsy Hp:
Why on earth would you equate domestic work with slavery?  (Why not 
accounting?  Or building? Or banking? Or teaching?)  House-elves like 
to cook (apparently), so they could live up to their nature and get a 
job as a cook.  Just as Charlie Weasley likes dragons and so lives up 
to his nature and gets a job working with dragons.  If his boss 
suddenly decided that Charlie was actually a slave and started 
treating him accordingly, I'm pretty sure Charlie would exercise his 
ability to choose (not being hampered by magical bonds) and go find a 
job dealing with dragons somewhere else.

As you say, a good domestic is a treasure.  If house-elves were able 
to quit, I'm quite sure they'd be wooed appropriately. 

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > I think the house-elf solution is simply give the house-elves to 
> > ability to quit.  With the threat of a good house-elf being wooed 
> > away by nicer work conditions (whatever those are to house-elves) 
> > I think you'd find most wizards doing their best to keep their 
> > particular house-elf content.

> >>Ceridwen:
> That might work.  It would necessitate hiring rather than owning 
> house elves.  But at the same time, for full-time employment, there 
> would be primarily the same old masters to serve, the wizards and 
> witches who already own house elves.  This is a small pool to       
> choose from.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Not necessarily.  There's the entirety of wizarding Britian to choose 
from (and possibly the Continent depending on house-elf language 
skills).  There are young up and comers graduating from Hogwarts 
every day (I'd imagine the Weasley twins wouldn't mind a house-elf), 
and there are tons of businesses that might like the idea of a house-
elf on the staff. The Leaky Cauldron, that ice-cream shop on Diagon 
Alley Harry loves so much, various pubs and hotels and resaurants 
would probably find work for an eager house-elf.  St. Mungo's could 
be a source of quite a few jobs.

> >>Ceridwen:
> I think that a temp agency or part-time service provider, like the 
> maid services that come to your home once a week for a smaller fee 
> than full-time, would be nice.  Then someone like  Molly could have 
> an elf-catered wedding for Bill and Fleur, or clean up her home for 
> a visit from the prospective in-laws without tiring herself too    
> much.

Betsy Hp:
Exactly!  Though, honestly I suspect most house-elves would not 
choose to quit their current jobs.  It seems that house-elf 
discontent (from what we've seen) derives more from a lack of 
political or philosophical agreement than worry over work or 
treatment.  But if the option to quit was there, I think that if the 
vaunted house-elf loyalty is more a thing of magic than true feeling, 
eventually more and more house-elves would seek those jobs that best 
met their particular needs and desires.  And there'd be the benefit 
of house-elves figuring it out for themselves, rather than wizards 
projecting things onto them.

(Of course if things really began to snow-ball there'd be discontent 
amongst the wizarding population as house-elves joined the employment 
ranks...  but that's another issue. <g>)

> >>Ceridwen:
> Even as a prisoner of war, Harry as his captor would have 
> responsibilities toward Kreacher.  He would still be responsible    
> for his housing, food, medical, and morale.
> <snip>
> Harry would also be in charge of censoring Kreacher's contacts,    
> both incoming and outgoing, or seeing to it that this contact was   
> censored.

Betsy Hp:
I feel like Harry did see to those things.  I mean, because of the 
magical bonds Harry didn't have to keep Kreacher in a cell or 
anything, so Kreacher seems to have had free run of Hogwarts.  Which 
means Harry didn't have to personally deliver Kreacher his food or 
escort him to the bath or anything.  But he confined Kreacher to a 
place where Kreacher's basic needs were cared for.  (Not the 
Shrieking Shack, for example.)  And Harry made sure Kreacher couldn't 
contact the enemy.

> >>Ceridwen:
> Harry would also be able to work the prisoner.  Nothing cruel and 
> unusual, and nothing that could compromise security, but work.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Hmm, I suppose it could be argued that in ordering Kreacher to follow 
Draco, Harry was just giving Kreacher a simple task.  But I think the 
cruelty was in making Kreacher work against his side.  Which I've 
seen prisoner's of war have to do (in various WWII movies <g>), but 
for some reason I saw this as Harry crossing the line from guard to 
slave owner.  Maybe because he took such advantage of a magical bond?

> >>Ceridwen:
> As a prisoner of war, it would be Kreacher's duty to try and       
> escape. He did what he could to get to the former Black sisters     
> when he belonged to Sirius, so perhaps Kreacher looks at things    
> more the way you do.  But, in a POW setting, it wouldn't be out of 
> place to shoot Kreacher in the back if he does try to escape.

Betsy Hp:
Yes.  And it's still more noble, IMO, than treating Kreacher as a 
slave.  I suppose it's a very fine line.  POWs were used as a sort of 
slave labor force, after all.  That's where slaves came from in many 
cases for that matter.  I guess it all comes down to how *Harry* 
views Kreacher.  In the end I'm sure Kreacher saw himself as a POW 
even while following Draco around.  But for some reason I see Harry 
as seeing Kreacher as his slave at that point. I could very well be 
wrong.  Harry never takes a moment to think about it, so it's really 
impossible to see into his head on this matter.

Makes for some interesting discussion though! <g>

Betsy Hp