Dumbledore Does Lie (Re: What turned Snape)

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 159013

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "montavilla47" wrote:
> 
> Montavilla:
> Here's an alternate scenario.  Trelawney is giving her interview.  
> Snape is listening at the door for whatever reason.  Aberforth 
> catches him and flings open the door.
> 
> Trelawney is appalled, Dumbledore concerned, Snape sputtering 
> excuses.
>
> At that moment, Trelawney starts going into her trance.  Dumbledore
> tells Aberforth to throw Snape out.  Aberforth does, but Snape has
> heard the first part of the prophecy.
> 
> Trelawney comes out of her trance.  "Where did that rude boy go?"
> 
> "Never mind," Dumbeldore says.  "I'd like to offer you a position 
> at Hogwarts.  Starting tonight."
> <snip>

Mike:

With regards to some of the other counter-theories: I seriously 
doubt 'muffliato' was known by either Albus or Aberforth as it was 
an HBP spell, not something disseminated at all AFAIK. Neither do I 
believe Aberforth catching Snape part way in and causing him to not 
hear the rest (but waiting until Trelawney finishes before he throws 
him into the room) would allow DD to state definitively that Snape 
didn't hear the rest of the prophesy.

This (Montavilla's) scenario or Albus putting an 'Impurturbable' on 
the door part way through would work if that's what happened. But 
neither conform to what DD *told* us did happen. DD didn't say that 
he was the one that caught the eavesdropper part way into the 
prophesy and he certainly didn't say that he cast a spell to stop 
Snape from hearing any more. DD also told us that the eavesdropper 
was caught part way into the prophesy, not before the prophesy got 
started. This also doesn't gibe with Sibyll's version.

The whole point is that the version DD told Harry in OotP was *not* 
what happened.  Any alternate theories that don't match completely 
with what DD told Harry still confirm that DD was lying (or shall we 
say not disclosing the whole truth). Remember, DD isn't under a time 
constraint like he was when he explained about giving evidence 
against Sirius in PoA. This discussion, specifically this part of 
the discussion, wasn't at all rushed. And there is little doubt in 
my mind that DD had long since decided how he was going to explain 
the eavesdropper scene to Harry. No, he told Harry the likely story 
that he and Snape (and probably Aberforth) had long since agreed 
upon.

This version that we got from Sibyll was meant as information (Snape 
was the eavesdropper) and as a clue (Snape was already working for 
Dumbledore). JKR chooses her words and what she has her characters 
tell us very carefully (of course, that's if the she's trying to 
convey something important). When we find an anomaly in an important 
plot point like this, she's done it for a reason. I also think the 
line about "Voldemort used Nagini to kill the old muggle" (from 
memory, not exact) when we *know* that's not what happened, is also 
a clue. I just can't figure out what that one means. 

But this one is plain to me. DD instructed/allowed Snape to tell 
Voldemort the first part and only the first part of the prophesy.

Dumbledore was taking a big risk here since prophesies are dicey 
things to let loose (look where and what the Ministry does with 
them). But he was gaining two things. He knew Riddle/LV and 
therefore knew LV would act on it. This gave DD some degree of 
predictability in the battle to neutralize LV. This was also the 
chance to leapfrog a young Snape up into LV's inner circle. Plus 
this enhances Snape's spying credentials. And Snape now knew 
something that Voldemort most likely doesn't want known by anyone 
else, especially his other DEs. He doesn't want his invincibility 
questioned.

This scenario sets up book 7 to echo an important book 3 plot. Snape 
takes on the Sirius Black role (on the run from the law, wrongly 
accused of releasing the prophesy to LV) and Dumbledore takes on the 
Pettigrew role (the dead hero who instead really was the one who  
ensured LV heard the prophesy). I don't know how we are going to be 
told this, I'll let JKR write that part. <g>

Mike