Dumbledore Does Lie (Re: What turned Snape)

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 159048

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> I think you are taking a very all-or-nothing approach that
> is not entirely realistic. It is possible that Albus heard
> /something/ going on outside the door without know the 
> details until some later time. It is also possible that 
> while Snape was in conversation with Aberforth, he was 
> aware that whatever Trelawney was saying on the other side
> of the door was still indeed going on, but again was not
> able to discern the details.
> 
> It's the difference between the awarenss of a vague muffled
> sound occurring in some other location, and the hearing of
> clearly define speech. You can be aware that something is
> going on without being aware of precisely what is going on.

Mike:

Well, my next line in the previous post was about anything in 
between. So, I'm not really taking an all or nothing position. My 
take on this scenario is simply that without any coordination 
between Albus and Aberforth that Albus could not be as sure, as he 
was, when Snape got cut off from overhearing the prophesy. Albus is 
sure Snape overheard everything up until "...as the seventh month 
dies" but not not a word of "and the Dark Lord will mark him as his 
equal..." If you are sure that Albus could draw a definite line of 
demarcation based on muffled noises, then I'm not going to convince 
you otherwise. 


Something else to explore:

Tonks:
OK, let put it all together. The door is thick wood. DD and Sybil
are in the room. For some reason Snape is at the door, listening.
(We don't know if he was following DD or just trying to see who was
there. But this doesn't matter.) <snip>
 
Mike:
I think it does matter.

montims:
I've missed something. Why was Snape there at all? OK, he was 
following DD around, and spying for LV. OK, he was told by LV to get 
a job at Hogwarts, and maybe this didn't displease him. But why, 
actually, was he listening (or trying to listen) to DD interviewing 
Sybill?

Mike:
Another point to answer. (Thank you montims) Instead of reaching to 
try to figure out how to reconcile the two versions of events, we 
should be asking why Snape would be eavesdropping on a teachers job 
interview. IMO, it is so much more logical to consider that Snape 
didn't hear any of the prophesy and only appeared at the door with 
Aberforth after Albus summoned both of them up from the bar.

I just think that JKR was trying to send a message with the 
difference between DD's explanation and ST's reveal. JKR may be 
indefinite about some of her other minor points, but do you really 
think she was being casual about Snape overhearing "The prophesy"? 
This was *the* penultimate reveal of the entire series, IMO. She's 
not going to approach the *what happened* casually and when she 
slips in this anomaly between the two versions, it wasn't an 
accident and it wasn't a *I-can explain-that* moment. It means 
something.

Let me be clear here. IMO Dumbledore lies to protect Snape. If 
Voldemort ever knew that Snape heard none or all of the prophesy, 
but only reported the first two sentences, Snape - dead man! Even if 
you want to say that DD was only protecting Snape's identity as the 
eavesdropper from Harry in OotP, now that Snape is going into deep 
cover close to Voldemort is not the time for DD to tell anyone the 
true story, especially Harry.

And, if my prediction that Snape was already working for Dumbledore 
by the time of the prophesy, it makes perfect sense that Dumbledore 
does not tell anyone the true story, that he and Snape stick to 
their *likely story* to protect Snape's position vis-a-vis Voldemort.

JMO
Mike