The Statute of Secrecy

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 159118

--- In message # 158965, "a_svirn" wrote:

> a_svirn:
However, the blood projection thing, or, say, that wonderful
Voldemort-baiting plan in OOP was another matter entirely. Here
Dumbledore again didn't share his plans and intentions with other
phoenixes, and he didn't have the same excuse as with Snape.<snip>

Mike:
What canon support do you have for this assertion? There is none 
AKAIK and it appears that DD has very much shared his plans with the 
Order. They are guarding the DoM entrances and I'm sure DD has told 
them why they are doing this. BTW, all of the Order members sure 
seem to know what's going on re the after dinner talk at 12 GP in Ch 
six of OotP. They are trying awfully hard to fill Harry in without 
saying too much.

> a_svirn:
Yet, it didn't seem to occur to anyone to question his dictatorial 
style. (Except, probably, for Sirius – again). They all adopted an 
attitude that can be summed up in Lupin's words "It isn't our 
business to know, it's Dumbledore's business". And it's just, well, 
weak. To say the least.

Mike:
This is intellectually dishonest. That quote of Lupin's is in 
reference to DD not divulging why he trusts Snape, which you agree 
with in your preceding paragraph. And it was in HBP, it has nothing 
to do with what's going on during OotP. 

IMO you depiction of a dictatorial DD is unwarranted and unfounded. 
Being the leader and director of the Order required him to take 
certain decisions upon himself. But you have no support for your 
position that he doesn't open up the floor for debate during 
meetings. 


--- In message # 158978, "a_svirn" wrote:

> a_svirn:
> I don't remember from canon that members of the order defended
> students in HBP. I remember that they were fighting together as
> equals.  <snip>
> 
> Besides, whether or not phoenixes could stop the invasion, 
> surely, Dumbledore's place should have been in his school when 
> the invasion occurred.  <snip>

Mike:
Harry's friends are not the only students. There is an entire school 
full of students that DD sets the Order to defend. True, Ginny and 
Ron were fighting as equals, but they seem to be mostly dodging 
spells with the help of the 'Felix'. But they helped by occupying at 
least 2 of the DEs, so that was something.

As to DDs place being at the school, did you not hear Draco on the 
tower? They were to wait until DD was away from the school before 
they staged the invasion. If DD hadn't left, no invasion. And it is 
a remarkable coincidence that the exact time that Draco gets the 
cabinet fixed, DD summons Harry to go out on the cave adventure, 
don't you think? Like maybe there is more going on here than we have 
been told. Like maybe DD staged this whole affair to occur on his 
timetable.


--- In message # 158978, "a_svirn" wrote:

> a_svirn:
> And Dumbledore cheated Mrs. Cole of her ability to regulate
> her orphanage.

Mike:
This was discussed at length. Pippin and I brought up presenting a 
made up document that Mrs. Cole couldn't follow up on anyway. But 
more importantly, Mrs. Cole is at the end of her rope trying to deal 
with Tom. She has neither the means nor the knowledge to deal with 
him and DD very well knew this would be the case. He is there to 
present what is the most logical solution, take Tom to Hogwarts and 
teach him to control his magic and to become a proper wizard. To 
suggest that Mrs. Cole could have come to this conclusion, that she 
should know that young wizards should be enrolled in a school of 
magic, is preposterous.


--- In message # 159047, "a_svirn" wrote:

> a_svirn:
Although I agree with you on the question of forgeries I think that
stature of secrecy does force one to act unethically. Because memory
charms *are* unethical and it's impossible to maintain secrecy 
without them.

Mike:
Well, maybe your opinion as a Muggle is that "we can all handle it" 
and that there isn't any reason for JKR's statute of secrecy. 
Putting aside the fact that this is the paradigm JKR set up, I find 
that wishful thinking in the extreme. The idea that there aren't 
Muggles that would exploit and/or destroy the WW defies logic and 
denies reality (reality of the Potterverse, that is).

 
--- In message # 159112, "a_svirn" wrote:
> 
> a_svirn:
> Well, sure, it would have been even better – for the common good I 
> mean – if somebody had strangled him in his cradle. <snip>

Mike:
Curious that someone that is so disgusted with the wizards using 
Memory Charms, would even suggest this. I guess that explains why 
the wizards have chosen to hide in their own world, with these 
attitudes in the *minds of Muggles*.

> a_svirn:
> Still, even for the muggle world it would have been better if he 
> hadn't received magical education. As we have learned from HBP the 
> consequences for muggles were every bit as dreadful as for wizards.

> a_svirn:
> Yeah, that worked, didn't it? Dumbledore kept an eye on Riddle 
> while Riddle kept practicing the Dark Arts, killing people left 
> right and centre and so on. 

Mike:
Wow, your hindsight is 20/20, just like everyone else. Or maybe 
you're suggesting that Dumbledore should have known what Tom Riddle 
was going to grow into being and just strangled him in his crib. 
Yeah, that wouldn't have been unethical at all.

> a_svirn:
> There wouldn't have been any consequences at all if he stayed away 
> from the WW.

Mike:
And your basis for this contention is?? You know that without being 
offered a formal education, Tom would never have figured out that he 
was a wizard, do you? As powerful, as advanced and as intelligent as 
Tom was, I have no doubt that he would have figured out that he was 
a wizard and, being shunned by his kind, started practicing *wild 
magic* which might have destroyed much more than he's done so far.


> a_svirn:
> <snip> And it follows that he couldn't possibly know what was 
> the best for the common good, does it not? None of us can – 
> that's why we are taught to play fair and respect the law.

Mike:
I found something that I can agree with you on. ;-)