Dumbledore Does Lie - Sort Of

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 159145


> Alla:
> 
> Both, actually. Harry certainly does not **tell** everything to
> Dumbledore, but Dumbledore looks in his eyes way too often for my
> taste to be sure that Harry indeed witholds information from him.

Pippin:
Does Dumbledore ever use  legilimency on Harry
when Harry hasn't tried to lie to him first? I think not, otherwise
he would have known about Trelawney being attacked and 
things might have fallen out very differently. Whooping is not
a crime, attacking a teacher is. Too bad Harry didn't remember
to tell him about it.

Alla: 
> As to Marauders, well, yeah, they managed to kept something from
> Dumbledore, AFAIK - once, which DD himself calls extraordinary
> achievement, I still would not call that equal footing - meaning that
> usually Dumbledore gets the information he needs, whether other
> person wants him to or not.

Pippin:
You mean that they were animagi?
What about the secret keeper switch, the marauder's map,
and the monthly outings with the werewolf? What about
the secret entrance through the one-eyed witch? 

 
> Alla:
> 
> Er, no - I meant that if person asks him question and feels really
> strongly that she needs to know the answer, the question should be
> answered, IMO.

Pippin:
So it is all about Dumbledore's subjective judgement of how much
the person is being emotionally tortured by not knowing? I guess
Lupin would never be told anything then :) Harry probably wouldn't
either. I mean, most of the questions that burn up the bandwidth
around here haven't received even a first thought from Harry.
 
> Alla:
> 
> Not to dragged by fate explanation comes in HBP AFAIK and DD already
> gives explanation in OOP where he mentions nothing about not being
> dragged, no?

Pippin:
Dumbledore does not tell Harry how to feel, he waits till Harry tells
him how he feels, then tries to deal with it.

I'm sure Dumbledore thought Harry would think he had enough to do 
with classes and homework and adolescence generally without being 
expected to save the world from Voldemort singlehanded.  


> Alla:
> 
> That's easy to say that they can quit IMO. Because they do not just
> **work** for Dumbledore, they fight for the Light, for all that's
> good, no?
> 
> So, if they quit where does that lead them? To Voldemort? I disagree
> that if they don't like his style, they can quite ( I mean Order of
> Phoenix fighters), because IMO there is nowhere else to go.

Pippin:
There's the Ministry, there's what we might call the Fred and George
route, there's lone resisters like Regulus. If Dumbledore's group
is the most effective, well, that speaks for itself, IMO. 

  
> Alla:
> 
> I lost you here :) Actually lost the meaning of the
> word "transparent"? Does it mean explain more fully?

Pippin:
It means to be obvious and straightforward and complete. 
Nothing hidden.

The thing is, I don't think Harry would make informed decisions
if Dumbledore explained all his reasoning. He'd 
just accept that Dumbledore is way good at figuring things out.

It's  the reason Hermione doesn't altogether like doing the
boys' homework for them. It's the reason Harry is getting a
good potions grade from Slughorn but he doesn't really 
understand what he's doing. Harry is a bit lazy, and doesn't
think things out unless he's forced to. And there are some
things that younger Harry just wasn't ready to know.

There is a lot of challenging of received wisdom going on in
the books, but there is also an insistence that sometimes, as
frustrating as it is, the old guys really do know stuff that they
can't explain to you because you don't yet have the background
or the experience to understand it. 

Pippin